[David Harshbarger]

Do you Hickory players carry 14?  What are they?

Also, are there contemporary hickory clubs that deliver the advantages of the materials without the Luddite insistence of freezing design in time?

Dave

[jeffwarne]

With my oversized hickories I'm able to hit my gutty Polara farther than ever    

[Kevin Lynch]

Hi David,

If you're interested in getting into hickories, the quickest way is to purchase replicas made by Tad Moore or Mike Just (@ Louisville Golf).  Trying to assemble a full set of authentic clubs is ideal, but that could take years.  But if you are interested in only authentics, there are collectors / dealers in Pinehurst like Jay Harris who could probably set you up.

Mike & Tad's replicas are "frozen in time" in a way, as they only make replicas of clubs that were in existence as of 1935 (this is the cut-off used by Society of Hickory Golfers for events).  But the workmanship is so wonderful that you will not feel like you're overly handicapped.  They feel solid and pure.  I'm already such an addict from using the replicas, but already plan to build a set of authentics over the coming years.

In general, most hickory players carry less than 14, and a number of events utilize a 7 club limit (to emphasize shotmaking).

The types of clubs (w est loft /equiv)
WOODS
Driver (11-12 deg)
Brassie (13-14 deg - 2 wood)
Spoon (15-16 - 3 wood)
Cleek (21 deg - like a 4 hybrid)
Baffy (25 deg - 5/7 wood)

IRONS
Driving iron (18 -2/3 iron)
Mid Iron (22 - 4 iron)
Jigger (26 - 5/6)
Deep Faced Mashie (32 - 6/7)
Mashie (37 - 8/9)
Spade Mashie (42 - 9/PW)
Mashie Niblick (48 - PW/AW)
Niblick (58)

Most players I've seen pick 2-3 of the wood options, and may leave the stronger irons out of the bag.

I'd be glad to share whatever experience I have from picking this up over the winter (PM me).  A number of GCAers and hickory players were very helpful in answering many of my questions.

[Kevin Lynch]

http://www.hickorygolfers.com/how-to-build-a-hickory-golf-play-set_5123_ct.aspx

Above is a link to the Society of Hickory Golfers that was very helpful to me.

[David Harshbarger]

Kevin,

Thanks very much for the rundown.  I'll keep these on my radar.  Hope to meet you in NY state days.

for you non-Luddites, are there materials out there that could be used to make clubs that play like, or even amplify, the characteristics of hickory?

David

[Melvyn Morrow]

Hickory - all you need you can acquire from “The St Andrews Golfing Company” (http://www.standrewsgolfco.com/) - it has to be your first and only port of call when talking golfing equipment.  Get the tour, see the clubs being made, feel the history of the modern game of golf as you see quality clubs in the various stages of their manufacture.

You see a little bit of history with a touch of magic, worth a visit and obtaining a club or two, if not a full set. Hickory Clubs, new and from St Andrews, the dream of many a golfer.

Go and look before you decide to purchase, the club(s) will mean far more to you if you do, but then that's only my opinion.

Melvyn
 

[Jim_Kennedy]

David,

There used to be a fiberglass golf shaft that was made with a whopping 14 degrees of torque. If I remember correctly the shafts were sold under the name "Fiberspeed". I had a few of them in the mid '90s and installed one in an iron head from the '20s/'30s era.
No one who hit it could swing smooth enough nor flat enough to make it work. 

Don't know if they still exist.

[David Harshbarger]

Melvyn,

I will surely visit the St Andrews Co when I visit Scotland.  Mail order would be the order of the day until then.

Does anyone know of alternate natural materials used in clubs,  like bamboo, ash, maple, etc.? By the time hickory was the dominant material, had all the other materials been weeded out, so to speak, as unfit?  Was persimmon in use as the head material on hickory shafted woods, or did it come to the fore with steel shafts?

Dave

[Ken Moum]

I assembled my set by purchasing the clubs on eBay.  The irons cost under $50 each and the woods were ~$75 each.

But to get a playable set I probably had to buy something like 30-35 clubs.  Part of the process was figuring out what clubs I would use, and part of it was learning how to determine if a club was worth buying (one thing I learned is that a lot of old clubs have been cut down.. a lot.)

I had the advantage of being accustomed to working on perssimmon woods, so I had whipping thread, and knowledge of a number of techniques that allowed me to get clubs playable.  I also invented a way to tighten up iron heads without taking them apart.

Then again, Randy Jensen (and I think his brother) run Classic Golf at 4617 Dodge St, Omaha, NE 68132, and they've been a  great source of restored hickories over the years.

[Ken Moum]

Does anyone know of alternate natural materials used in clubs,  like bamboo, ash, maple, etc.? By the time hickory was the dominant material, had all the other materials been weeded out, so to speak, as unfit?  Was persimmon in use as the head material on hickory shafted woods, or did it come to the fore with steel shafts?

Dave

I have a brassie that's in my play set that has a bamboo shaft made of six strips of cane glued around a slender hickory core. it was introduced in shortly before steel shaft came out, and i suspect that was its demise.

The shaft has so little resistance to torque that I can hold the grip and head in opposite hands and twist about 30*.

K

[Scott Macpherson]

HI david,

I play a bit of hickory golf. I think the minimum amount of clubs you need is 6.

1. A wood (any type)
2. A mid-iron
3. A Mashie
4. A Mashie-Niblick
5. A Niblick
6. A putter.


That will get you started, and not cost too much. If you like it, you can buy a few more clubs, if you don't it hasn't cost too much.

scott

[jeffwarne]

What kind've balls do you use?

[Scott Macpherson]

I use low compression/'soft' balls. The ones that were recommended to me, and with which I've stuck is the Srixon 2-piece 'Soft Feel' (in the green box). I've been told they are 80 compression.

scott

[David Harshbarger]

Jim,

Sounds like fiberglass may fall in the category of "materials not suited for golf".  That was true for auto bodies, too.

Ken,

With that much torque, how do you play that club?

Dave

[Melvyn Morrow]

David

Check out this links http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqwByKy6dHg  on The St Andrews Golfing Co. It  is very interesting, worth a view. It was done by Andy re Home of Golf TV. It may give you some of the info you seek.

Enjoy

Melvyn

[Jud_T]

David,

Start here:

http://www.hickorygolf.com/

[David Harshbarger]

Thank you, everyone, for the helpful links and video. 

[Ken Fry]

David,

Start here:

http://www.hickorygolf.com/

As Jud pointed out, GCA's own Ralph Livingston is an excellent source of information.

Ken

[David Harshbarger]

Thanks again to everyone for their advice.

The Tad Moore/Louisville/St. Andrews all look absolutely fantastic, but alas, are out of my price range.

So, with the memory of our own David Moriarty's ragtag assortment rattling around his bag, and the excellent advice of the SoHG, it was off to e-bay.  Less than $200 later, including shipping, 9 clubs, 2 woods, 6 irons, and a putter are winging there way from across America towards lovely Saratoga.

The thing I couldn't out of my head was this memory, possibly made up, of swinging a wood shafted club, and the burning desire to do so again.  Don't know when it was, or where, if ever, but I couldn't shake that vision, and the intensity of it transformed me into a hickory golfer.  That, and playing one evening with an old persimmon driver, a game improvement 5 iron, a 52* player's wedge and an isomer insert putter, 2 balls and 2 tees, I played better, and had more fun.

I left the course asking "why do I need a matched set?  Why do I need irons in 10 yard increments?  Why do I need balanced swing weights?  Why do I need dialed in yardages for 4 wedges and three swings? " The answer of course was "I don't".   I don't want the puzzle solved for me. 

Through this metamorphosis, many views changed, and maybe more will. One in particular encapsulates the change, the dot punched iron. When I first started looking at hickories I had a visceral reaction to the dot punched irons.  Like wearing polka dots with plaid, there very presence in a set was an affront to propriety, a broadside against order.  That prejudice I shed.  Now, the dot punched iron will live, or not, in my bag, based on the merits of the club, of how it plays, of how I play it.  Dot punched, angled groves, no groves, cross hatches, all are welcome.

Thanks again everyone.

Dave

[Colin Macqueen]

gentlemen,
Now here is a hickory septset!!



Cheers Colin

[RSLivingston_III]

David,

Start here:

http://www.hickorygolf.com/

As Jud pointed out, GCA's own Ralph Livingston is an excellent source of information.

Thanks Ken and Jud for the nod.
I actually started by acquiring a putter that I used with my modern set and then began picking up other clubs as I found them. My first full round (back in the 1990's) was with 6 clubs and a lot of partial swing shots
Ultimately the best way to build a set is one at a time.
The irons are the most important clubs. Find one you really like and build around it, plus a putter and a brassie - this wood will do most everything you need done with a wood.
Many pros of the time felt 7 clubs was more than enough to accomplish what they needed.
Read Chick Evans. And /or OB Keelers autobiography.

ralph

[Ken Moum]

Jim,

Sounds like fiberglass may fall in the category of "materials not suited for golf".  That was true for auto bodies, too.

Ken,

With that much torque, how do you play that club?

Dave

That brassie is one of my favorite clubs, the torque really isn't a big issue for me unless I hit one on the toe.  Toe hooks with it are truly impressive.  The head rotates so much that gear effect goes into overdrive.

FWIW, I use urethane cover balls with mine, as I found that even low compression surlyn balls can break shafts.  ProV1s work fine, but I also have a stash of Slazenger Players that have urethane covers and a thin payer of windings around an oversized core.

K

[Bill_McBride]

Does anyone know of alternate natural materials used in clubs,  like bamboo, ash, maple, etc.? By the time hickory was the dominant material, had all the other materials been weeded out, so to speak, as unfit?  Was persimmon in use as the head material on hickory shafted woods, or did it come to the fore with steel shafts?

Dave

I have a brassie that's in my play set that has a bamboo shaft made of six strips of cane glued around a slender hickory core. it was introduced in shortly before steel shaft came out, and i suspect that was its demise.

The shaft has so little resistance to torque that I can hold the grip and head in opposite hands and twist about 30*.

K

I had a hand me down set as a kid - 58 years ago - that had steel shafts with a wood-look sheath.  Not sure when these irons were made.

Today my hickories are antiques - brassie, spoon, mid iron (3), mashie (5 iron), mashie niblick (7), niblick (9), putter.

[David Harshbarger]

Bill,

Research says those are pyratone.  Fun fact: pyratone is so obscure it has no entry in Wikipedia.  It seems Pyratone was introduced as a steel shaft that mimicked the look of hickory, I imagine because the look of steel was thought to be unacceptable.

Ken, I took the shotgun approach, assuming that some or all of the initial hickories will be cycled out over time.  Hopefully, there are some keepers in the mix.

Dave

[RSLivingston_III]

Bill,

Research says those are pyratone.  Fun fact: pyratone is so obscure it has no entry in Wikipedia.  It seems Pyratone was introduced as a steel shaft that mimicked the look of hickory, I imagine because the look of steel was thought to be unacceptable.

Ken, I took the shotgun approach, assuming that some or all of the initial hickories will be cycled out over time.  Hopefully, there are some keepers in the mix.


Actually Pyratone is the name of the company that developed the coating process. Many times it was done in a color with grain lines added that mimic'd hickory shafts. It was not a brand of shaft but it became the generic name given by the golf collecting communitee to all coated steel shafts It was not exclusive to steel shafts. I have one very rare set of hickory shafts wrapped in pyratone, presumably done to weatherproof the wood shaft. A section of one of these clubs is shown in my Tom Stewart book.
Dave

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