Is it even worth it?

[V. Kmetz]

Hello All,

I haven't posted regularly for more than a year, and I was actually preparing an inquiry to the board on the first ten (chronologically speaking) hard copy books/essays/long articles on GCA...

But then I came upon the feature interview with Tom Paul and that all went away.

After reading this "interview" (which I feel is nothing of the sort...85 words of questions, hardly a glance at GCA, 13,468 words of response, a passing glance at GCA...this was a prepared, typed manifesto of social assertion put on a pedestal by the proprietors of this site) I felt ashamed to have ever devoted one moment to Golf, GCA and the frivolity of posting thoughts on a forum such as this.

To read the now-60-deep member praise and annex discussion that follows, I realize that I am in the sharpest and smallest minority; but when I look at Tom Paul's life through the prism of this self-published "Memoir of a Gentleman" I see a life wasted, ignorant of what true good fortune is, solipsistic enough for long enough to actually believe that the savages of those outside the gates (including a young Jack Nicklaus it seems) are any different than the savages inside the gates.  The only thing that separates this "Atlas Hugged" memoir from that of Ayn Rand's stories is that a) Rand writes fiction and b)Rand writes only a little longer.

Does Tom Paul realize that behind every golf shot he played, every charming story of Lady Astor and Winnie, every privileged point of access to every sacred reserve of a damn game, there are people in great suffering, earning pennies chasing necessities that cost dollars, thousands of them? And how were these fortunes built and secured (whether in their English origins or in the American iteration)? By divine right, by royal fiat, by exploitation and privatization of resources, by criminal acts, by theft and swindling of native peoples, by wars fought by the poor, by closed-doors incest with government, law and politics (oiled by the profit earned by all such activity).

So to enable the predilections and the full personal blossoming of some 100,000 uber-class lives in the last 200 years, billions (perhaps a trillion) have suffered under the yoke of the master's need for comfort and whimsy--cold, hungry, over-worked, provoked by a life of seeking necessity?  And then I'm to believe that a boys camp in Long Island is payment enough? Read the classic Renaissance essayist Michel de Montaigne..."Penitence demands a burden."

Please tell me this was all an inside joke, that my indolence in keeping up with the board and posting has made me unaware of some unknown silliness; and that this was actually intended to be a satire of the very class of people so lovingly framed by TP.

If it's not, then though shameful and abhorrent to my personal beliefs, I think this "in-his-view" is perhaps the bravest thing ever concocted and publicly displayed for its snapshot of detached dysfunction, rank de-spoilment, and frank cowardice it displays.

Yes, cowardice...at least in the instance of the anecdote about Papa Paul and Seminole and Nicklaus' desire to join.  C'mon - Dad wouldn't leave the club because he had no stomach to encounter breach with friends but resigning the board is an act of conscience just the same?  Thank God Charlie Sifford didn't apply, Dad might have had a genuine moral quandry--heaven forfend!

And this self-annunciated standard that the true gentleman "treats all men equal in both scorn and praise"...surely that ethos is one part of exemplary character; but the very point of gentleman and his business clubs and his golf clubs is that they are never in contact with any member of the public that might just challenge and require them to truly apply that ethos.  Outside of a few Caddies and that horrible machinist's son that Daughter Ashley is infatuated with, how many fools, felons and flunkies does the true gentleman of Mr. Paul's class encounter?

The whole Lord Jim section of flunking out of Princeton, "banished from the country to a family publishing concern" turning up at Columbia - with a stint in the Marine Corps (I am, like another poster, interested in that term of service; its years and avenues of duty) in between...it makes me ill.  My god, to treat that which would change the life of any of my freshman students at a state college (I am a Graduate Assistant about to receive my Masters) who couldn't in a hundred spins of the wheel over 8000 years prove their merit for the opportunity to be next to the best teachers and the best resources, like a frame to disinterested adventurist hedonism is such an outrage.  If Tom Paul is speaking accurately and with an inured philosophy/biography of a culture, no greater proof exists that the uber-wealthy should be dispossessed of at least one half of their holdings, if only to buy gasoline for the next 5 years for all American households earning less than 35,000 or entirely forgive all student debt in this country...even if it was to buy tickets to Death Metal concerts for 10 year-olds, it would be a better investment than such...dandism.

So, yes Tom Paul you and your WASPforebearers have ostensibly ruled the world; you have run the "machine," it has not run you...and how is that world you have run? 

Does it look very nice from up there in the sky. 

Up there are not those of the bearing and hereditary line and the knowledge of a true gentleman, like a high altitude bomber, dropping a devastation on a littlke place they can't even see? The war is so clean up there is it not? 

You fly home in safety to base, well out of range of any gun, you park your jet, kiss the wife, screw the maid, drink with the boys and do it all over again the next day--until one day you receive a glimpse of what those bombs do. In modern times, a drone operator who kills "possibles" in Afghanistan from a console in a bunker in Nevada.

If as you say, "when those in a leadership role lose the respect of those they lead, they will ultimately fail and they will devolve into irrelevancy somehow at some point."

Well stories like yours--though torturedly cast through some prism of "golf"--is the open spigot where the respect runs out.  That's why I genuinely think its so brave--it's unintentionally a mea culpa, by the very standards it sets.

Well, I can't be as voluminous as the "interview" was; but there's my gist. I'll be glad to respond to any individual prompts that may occur as I get the chance; I'm caddying at WF this weekend. 

In all of this, though I tried to keep a civil tone; I failed as it was impossible. 

Tom Paul is a top-flight know-nik about GCA and I believe has even extended certain posting kindnesses to me.  This seems a terrible way to re-pay the spirit of that and his generally good reputation, as I know it.  I apologize; I felt this particular case required strident response and because it also had so little to do with golf (really).  In fact, the only thing I can say about the Golf Content of this portion of memoir is that Merion, Gulph, Seminole...etc are likely to be the first places torched, when the impoverished and middle classes have nothing left to lose.

cheers

vk

[Michael George]

Melvyn:  Did you change your name to V. Kmetz?   

[Sam Morrow]

I read about half of this, I hope this is a joke.

[Randy Thompson]

I give it 24 hours max!

[Bill Brightly]

I read about half of this, I hope this is a joke.

What I find funny is that VK, our own tormented young socialist, will be caddying at Winged Foot this weekend. I don't know how he will be able to finish his loop without his head exploding. He'll be walking the same grounds that so many of America's most powerful captialists have walked for the past 90 years... Will he simply study the architecture, or be driven mad by the history of wealth that is intertwined with 36 holes of great golf?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Agree or disagree with V. Kmetz at least he had the decency to post his comments on a new topic heading and did not disgrace the introduction thread by Ran re Tom Paul’s Feature Interview.

Whatever you think of his comments he has shown more courtesy than quite a few on this site. That takes balls, it shows class not to mention consideration for Ran, his fellow GCA Members and the topic headed Feature Interview.

Let’s not forget his right to voice his opinion and the guts he has shown in doing so. That very action proves the hidden quality of this site

Melvyn.  

[Dan Herrmann]

VK - You've really misread Tom Paul.  Big time.

[V. Kmetz]

Hello again,

To DH:  I don't think I've misread anything--as far as this piece goes.  I've apparently missed your reading; but I'm not responsible for missing some meta-context about Tom Paul - there's only these words. Please select a few choice quotes you think I have misread, place them up and tell me where my reading is at odds with your own. I will look at them later and respond in the afternoon.

To MHM:  I appreciate your acknowledgement; you are spot-on that the ability to exchange honest opinions without sanction has been, is and hopefully will continue to be a winning feature of this site.

To BB:  Your comment is easily answered...because I take people as they come...because WF is larded with (gasp) Irish, (gasp) Catholics (gasp) Irish-Catholics...because the culture of Winged Foot has proven to be charitable and decent in its approach to the less fortunate and working unfortunate...but even if that wasn't true; I am not there to engineer social change or offer my opinions; I have been asked to perform a service, a service that I execute with good notice and for which I am compensated enough to pay my bills.  If on top of all of that, someone asks for my opinion, I'll give it.  But in a wholly opinion-based venue such as this, I do not have to remain silent when I hear such a memoir.  For the moment, I'll try and BE the change I want to see.

cheers

vk

[Mike Sweeney]

I think that V Kmetz has missed the point of Tom Paul's views and postings. The only downside here is that Tom does not post here directly anymore.

In a number of conversations and exchanges with Tom over the years, I personally find the history of the traditional old school golf clubs to be closely tied to the changing of America. I remember one call in particular where I probably killed 90 minutes during a work day talking with Tom about the fact that there are no more WASP on the Supreme Court and we obviously have a mixed-race President:

Twilight of the WASP
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/05/15/twilight-of-the-wasps.html

Why is that? I don't want to put words in Tom's mouth, but he has a unique insider's view that many people from WASP legacies would not express. I am grateful that he does.

On more than one occasion, I expressed to Tom some frustration that my Special Needs son was often not really accepted at certain private clubs and that is why I love Yale and Hotchkiss because the staffs are quite accommodating of Dustin when they can be. Tom of course put it in perspective for me when he said that ALL children were put in their place in his generation, and boarding school was often a place that kids were sent.

In a similar way that Jerry McGuire is not a "sports agent movie", I personally find the story of Tom Paul to not be about golf architecture. For me, that is a good thing as I would have gotten bored years ago of this discussion group if it was only about architecture. Tom has lived a unique life both good and bad and he is not afraid to put it out there. Obviously that will bring out feelings both good and bad along with those postings, and I think he is probably okay with that.

The world is changing and Tom Paul is a reflection of some of those changes. He does not "rule the country" like some of his ancestors, I believe he married a Catholic (!!), and he is very open about his past which many in the WASP society would not have done in the past. History is something to learn from and Tom Paul is a walking history lesson. You don't have to kiss his behind, but I think we should be appreciative of his posting here over the years. I have personally found his postings and Tom Paul to be very interesting.

[Ronald Montesano]

My opinion is that the two essays give us a decent framework to avoid discussing golf course architecture. I'm glad that both fellows took the time to select words from this expansive language to define what it is that motivates their cause and that neither resorted to off-hand, poorly-planned tweets of 140 characters or less to defend a position. While I've nothing to add to this thread, if the bell for Round Two rings and I'm not yet awake, please alert me.

[Patrick_Mucci]

V,

"Context" or perspective may be what you're missing.

I understand your view, that the interview was "GCA.com-Lite"
That's true, it was.

TEPaul was one of the longest active participants on GCA.com and his record of posting interesting and quality architecturally related  posts on GCA.com is clearly established.  So perhaps some leeway should be granted for deviating from the norm and for being "GCA.com-Lite".

[Patrick_Mucci]

V Kmetz,

A few comments about your post, a post very similar to the post you object so stridently to, from TEPaul.

Your pity for the "possibles" in Afghanistan is typical of a life protected by the military personnel you scorn.

Are you aware of the layered protocols required before the Hellfire's are triggered ?
How many friends, close friends, did you lose in the Twin Towers on 9-11 ?

Were all those killed on 9-11 the wealthy WORKING CLASS you clearly abhor ?
Enemy combatants ?  Harborers of terrorists ?
Or completely innocent mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, porters, administrative staff, executives and successful  business owners, all working hard for a living trying to support themselves and their families ?

Your desire to confiscate wealth, wealth you resent and characterize as undeserved,  to distribute it as you see fit, is indicative of the "entitlement" mentality now pervasive in this country.  Indicative of those who would vote for a living rather than work for a living.

As to the confiscation of wealth  which you advocate at the 50 % level, you should be aware that taxes on ordinary income for hard working, successful people, exceed 50 %, and when those same people, after expenses, take what's left and invest it, when they die, the governments take another 50 %.  Try converting a building you own worth $ 4,000,000  to hard cash within 9 months of the date of death, to raise $ 2,000,000 to pay the IRS and the resident state inheritance tax.

What's paying "my fair share" ?
90 %, 100 %
At what percentage will my incentives to work be dulled by a confiscatory tax system that recklessly doles my hard earned money out as the non-producing, bureaucrats dictate.

You prefer to confiscate wealth rather than earn it.

Yours is the politics of envy

So that you're not confused by the similarity of our worlds, my grandparents came to America from Italy.
They died when my father was 14.
He had to drop out of school to work to help support his 4 brothers and sisters.
He caddied, served in WWII and through his own efforts, his force of will and hard work, he achieved a measure of success in America.
Should that success have been confiscated and redistributed to those of your choosing ?
When he died, 50 % of what he had accumulated after taxes, was paid in Estate taxes.
So that you're not further confused,  I didn't inherit a penny.  I told him that he had given me all that i needed in life, an education, a good name and a great inertial guidance system.  Hence, I'm not from TEPaul's world, but, I'll defend it against the likes of you who want to confiscate that which has been earned by hard work and NOT the demonized methods you attribute it to.

Was George Bernard Shaw right ?
"those who can, do.  Those who can't teach ?

End of rant.......... For now

[Tom_Doak]

How many friends, close friends, did you lose in the Twin Towers on 9-11 ?

Patrick:

As someone born in New York City and raised in the suburbs, 9/11 was naturally a shock to my system and something I took personally.  Luckily, both of the people I knew with offices in the World Trade Center were out of the office that morning, playing golf actually, but thousands of their friends and co-workers died in the attack and that has never been lost on me.

However, it wasn't until your quote above that I stopped to think why the evil deeds of 9/11 aroused so much vengeance on the part of our leaders.  It's because 9/11 wasn't just an attack on America.  It was a direct attack on THEM, on money and power and privilege.  And they are apparently quite happy to use an unlimited amount of Americans' resources [and lives, if necessary] to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

[Tom_Doak]

V. Kmetz:

I think you draw some incorrect conclusions about Tom Paul.  My mother-in-law tells stories in the same manner that Tom does ... but she was orphaned as a child, and certainly didn't grow up on the Main Line.

In other words, a lot of it is not a class thing.  It's a generational thing ... from a generation where even the less well off had a bit of class.

[George Pazin]

Hello again,

To DH:  I don't think I've misread anything--as far as this piece goes.  I've apparently missed your reading; but I'm not responsible for missing some meta-context about Tom Paul - there's only these words. Please select a few choice quotes you think I have misread, place them up and tell me where my reading is at odds with your own. I will look at them later and respond in the afternoon.

To MHM:  I appreciate your acknowledgement; you are spot-on that the ability to exchange honest opinions without sanction has been, is and hopefully will continue to be a winning feature of this site.

To BB:  Your comment is easily answered...because I take people as they come...because WF is larded with (gasp) Irish, (gasp) Catholics (gasp) Irish-Catholics...because the culture of Winged Foot has proven to be charitable and decent in its approach to the less fortunate and working unfortunate...but even if that wasn't true; I am not there to engineer social change or offer my opinions; I have been asked to perform a service, a service that I execute with good notice and for which I am compensated enough to pay my bills.  If on top of all of that, someone asks for my opinion, I'll give it.  But in a wholly opinion-based venue such as this, I do not have to remain silent when I hear such a memoir.  For the moment, I'll try and BE the change I want to see.

cheers

vk

You clearly don't take people as they come, in spite of what you say.

[Jud_T]

However, it wasn't until your quote above that I stopped to think why the evil deeds of 9/11 aroused so much vengeance on the part of our leaders.  It's because 9/11 wasn't just an attack on America.  It was a direct attack on THEM, on money and power and privilege.  And they are apparently quite happy to use an unlimited amount of Americans' resources [and lives, if necessary] to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

Unfortunately it turns out these resources aren't unlimited, and I was as bloodthirsty as anyone, having lost one of my best friends amongst several others in the Towers.  The good news, depending on one's point of view, is that out of societal change and economic necessity, golf is no longer solely the province of the 'WASPS'.  Anyone who works hard enough, learns the social graces and makes the proper connections can hope to possibly attain membership to one of these formerly closed societies.  (Augusta National notwithstanding... )...

[Tom_Doak]

The good news, depending on one's point of view, is that out of societal change and economic necessity, golf is no longer solely the province of the 'WASPS'.  Anyone who works hard enough, knows the proper social graces and makes the proper connections can hope to possibly attain membership to one of these formerly closed societies.  (Augusta National notwithstanding... )...

Anyone?  Really, anyone?  These clubs aren't completely closed, but they aren't completely open, either.  Unless, by "makes the proper connections" you mean marrying into money. 

[Jud_T]

The good news, depending on one's point of view, is that out of societal change and economic necessity, golf is no longer solely the province of the 'WASPS'.  Anyone who works hard enough, knows the proper social graces and makes the proper connections can hope to possibly attain membership to one of these formerly closed societies.  (Augusta National notwithstanding... )...

Anyone?  Really, anyone?  These clubs aren't completely closed, but they aren't completely open, either.  Unless, by "makes the proper connections" you mean marrying into money.  

hence the phrases "hope" and "possibly".  Of course the famous Groucho Marx quote might apply in certain instances- "I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member."

[Sean_A]

VK

There seems to be a lot of hatred in your post.  While I too am not often enamoured by the behaviour and motives of the US "ruling class", I will forever believe that folks are folks no matter how much or how little money and privilege they have.  So far, after having lived in many places in the world and dealing with people professionally and personally across the globe, I have experienced very little to refute this belief.  We are all just folks.  Live and let live.  

Ciao  

[Michael George]

The biggest problem with the original post is that he is making judgments about a person that he has never met, which is the height of ignorance.  I  know extremely wealthy people that give a great deal back to their communities.  I have known poor people that don't do anything for their communities.  Through it all, I have learned to judge each person on their own merit.  V. Kmetz sounds like a young person that has yet to learn a lot of life's lessons, so I will give him a pass, but with posts like this, he is not getting off to a good start.  

[Melvyn Morrow]

What is it with you guys, a man it entitled to his views and opinions no matter if we agree or not? This site provides that right to voice our concerns again like it or not.

At least V. Kmetz took the time to read the interview before opening a separate topic to raise his own views. The fact that he read and commented should put some to shame as they in the past voiced an opinion without reading said Feature Interview.

While this site has many great things to be proud of, it has a terrible flaw, there are members who prefer to remain silent when they know others are being attacked just for their voicing an opinion – so much for honouring the principle of freedom of speech. The attitude of ganging up against an individual is apparent acceptable to the silent majority, yet in my opinion it’s just one step short of outright cowardice verging on a lynch mob mentality.

You may not support the individual or his comments but you could support this site, confirming or reminding some of what is right or wrong. Then perhaps, this attitude just reflects or explains the real state of the modern game of golf thanks to the disinterest of the silent golfing majority who seem to resemble the complicate audiences of the Roman Coliseum.

We need to protect our simple but so important rights, none more important that the right to a freedom of thought and to voice said thoughts. It’s worth more than the combined wealth of any Capitalist State, as it is the very bed rock of being a real human being in a tolerant and worthy society where men and women are asked to die to protect our rights.

Melvyn

[Melvyn Morrow]

Michael

"The biggest problem with the original post is that he is making judgments about a person that he has never met, which is the height of ignorance."

Melvyn: Did you change your name to V. Kmetz? 

He without out sin should cast the first stone.

That rules me out too.

Melvyn

[Peter Pallotta]

VK - one of the ironies is that, were he still posting, Tom Paul would be one of the few posters who'd respond and engage with your as seriously and voluminously as your first post deserves.

When I read the thread title, I thought you were going to ask whether this place and our precious preoccupations and our sniping and the teenage concern about what's hot and cool and the best we express everyday are worth the bandwidth we consume.  

Peter

[Adam Clayman]

V.
 Re; Your position on capitalism. Is it a function of the scholastic environment you've been entrenched in?
Can you name another doctrine that spreads the wealth more efficiently and thoroughly than capitalism?

Where are these angels that will decide for everyone who gets what and how much.

A recent story I heard might be germane. A lottery winner of some 750k is still collecting food stamps. Her defense? She still had no job and thought she was entitled to them.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Yes it is worth it.

[Sam Morrow]

I have an idea, let's start a website where we talk about golf course architecture.