[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 4: Par 4, 411 Yards - Though there are no penalties to be had, the tee shot at the 4th is extremely demanding. Much like the tee shot at the 3rd, there is a small 'sweet spot' in the centre of the fairway -- one could go 'round Kingsley many times and not find it.

The fairway is mostly blind from the tee; hopefully your host can properly point out the ideal line (mine did, but I didn't follow instructions).  Tee shots slightly left will funnel left leaving a short approach but an awkward angle over some bunkering / tall grass.  Tee shots slightly  right will funnel right into a hollow leaving a longer and completely blind but forgiving approach up the throat of the green.  Most will never find the centre of the fairway so no point describing the approach from there.

Tee View:




From the start of the fairway one can see the wild undulations..




Note my ball on the small ledge in the centre of the fairway...




Approach from centre:




Approach from left:




The green is one of the tamer ones at KC.  The first 2/3 of the green has little contour, sloping generally from back-to-front.  A ridge runs across the green 2/3 the way back and that's where the fun begins.  A few looks at the green...






An interesting routing decision to cross behind the 4th green on the way to the 3rd tee. I have hypothesized that this routing decision allows architects to build a bolder/blinder green than they otherwise might as the golfer has the opportunity to see the green up-close before playing it proper, though that theory is not confirmed here...






4th green as seen from 6th fairway.  A MacKenzie feel, anyone?

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Mark.

The only MD course Ive played is The Mines, in Grand Rapids. A different course (for many reasons) from Kingsley, but a very good one; and looking at these pictures again, I'm struck by how many of MD's charming features/design techniques featured here also feature at The Mines, albeit in a different/often less dramatic form, given the differences in the sites. I can really get a sense of Mike's 'design personality' from comparing the two.

Peter

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 5: Par 3, 222 Yards

I know many really like this hole, but it was one of my least favourite on the golf course (though that could be because of the pin position).  A long par-3, played into the day I played it, that requires a long carry to a punchbowl green.  I suspect the pin I played is the most difficult on the green, tucked on a small shelf on the left side of the green.  The hole, to me, felt a bit more like a hit and hope par-3 than one that requires much thought.

Tee View:






Green from Left:




Green from Back-Left:




From Behind:

[Sven Nilsen]

Two thoughts:

Its a members course.

You get a peak at the 5th green after walking off of 1.

[Tim Bert]

Mark - you faced the toughest pin location in my opinion. I get a chuckle out of calling it hit and hope because most criticism I hear is that it is too easy because everything funnels to the green (hello, it is a punch bowl!!)

The carry isn't that long if you hit a low runner. The only tee that makes it terribly imposing is the back wing, which is a tee you shouldn't be playing unless you've got the game for it (or in my case just a masochist with little care about the outcome).

There are plenty of tee options where the carry is not the issue. The perceived carry may put bad thoughts in your head but that's the point in my opinion.

To Sven's point I love the previews you get of the pins on the front. The 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th can all be viewed prior to the approach, which may be blind on any of those holes if you put the ball in the wrong spot, so paying close attention as you walk around really has its benefits.

[Mark Saltzman]

Tim, the reason I say it is hit and hope is because, as you say, everything funnels to one place.  I think it would be near impossible to purposely get to a left pin or a front right pin -- so just aim for the center and hope.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tim and others can speak to this with a bit more of a knowledge base, but there are ways to try to find the left shelf or the front right of the green.  It might take some time on repeated plays to figure it out, but its a dimension to the hole that often gets overlooked by those who don't have the liberty of playing the course multiple times. 

There are several pin locations on other holes throughout the course that can offer a similar challenge (the back left on 13 being one, and I'll through out the top of the knob on the back of the green at 11 as another). 

I'll concede the blind nature of the 5th makes precise execution that much more difficult, but once you know the lines, shot shapes and distances that work, luck becomes less of a factor.  An for the timid player, you can always play to the middle and take your chances on a longer one putt.

[Mark Saltzman]

Sven, you are probably right with everything you wrote. Like you said, I a m limited having only played the hole thrice to the one pin (all same day).

[Jackson C]

Tim and others can speak to this with a bit more of a knowledge base, but there are ways to try to find the left shelf or the front right of the green.  It might take some time on repeated plays to figure it out, but its a dimension to the hole that often gets overlooked by those who don't have the liberty of playing the course multiple times. 

There are several pin locations on other holes throughout the course that can offer a similar challenge (the back left on 13 being one, and I'll through out the top of the knob on the back of the green at 11 as another). 

I'll concede the blind nature of the 5th makes precise execution that much more difficult, but once you know the lines, shot shapes and distances that work, luck becomes less of a factor.  An for the timid player, you can always play to the middle and take your chances on a longer one putt.

You are right.  The back left position can be hit by a very good shot.  Takes a good player who has played the hole many times.  There are strong players at Kingsley and they will shape a shot into that position.
Front is actually very doable. Again with repeated plays you know to club down and hit with a medium high trajectory to just carry the hill.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I would agree with Tim - that pin is the hardest on the hole and I would think takes birdie almost out of the equation unless you hit a perfect tee shot.  Par is a good score given how small that shelf can be and a second shot without the proper pace may well not finish anywhere near the hole bringing bogey into the equation fairly quick.

I like the 5th, but it isn't my favorite on the course - however I have seen probably the most 2's on this short hole than any other and certainly some of the best 3's after a someone missed the green on their tee ball.  There are so many options in getting the ball close to the pin by an indirect route...

The hole is a lot of fun to play and I love checking out the flag on my way to the 2nd tee...

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