[Sam Morrow]

It's over-analyzed.

It's probably the best-known par 3 in the world.

Probably right but at the worst top 5. I've tried to wrap my mind around all the threads this week about the hole and I think to much is being read into the hole. It's a tough hole with unpredictable winds but at the end of the day I think we try and think to much about it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

It's over-analyzed.

Agreed.

It's a 145 to 156 yard par 3.

The 13th at Pine Tree, almost a mirror image is harder.

As I asked earlier, which is the easiest par 3 to birdie at ANGC ?

Why no answers ?

If it's so hard, which par 3 is easier to birdie ?

[Tom_Doak]

The softer conditions must have been a factor.

But, I also think that the hole is now so famous for being hard, that the pros all play it to the middle of the green when the flag is to the right.  They all know if they put it in the water with the hole on the right, they'll be called out for being stupid, so not as many guys make that mistake.  How many balls in the water this year?

P.S.  I'd guess that the famous "swirling winds" issue has always been a bit overstated.  It weighed heavily on the minds of players twenty years ago, when the local caddies perpetuated it.  Today's players just hit the shot, and don't worry about what they can't control.

[Phil McDade]

Tom:

Wouldn't "softer" conditions at #12 necessarily lead to softer conditions elsewhere, and thus lower overall scores? Yet the winning score of -10 -- the highest in the past four years -- would indicate the course played slightly tougher than in recent years. 12 also played as the easiest par 3 at the Masters in 2008, when the winning score was -8 and conditions (cold, wind) were widely believed to make scoring difficult.

[Jim Nugent]

Patrick's idea -- that players now hit 9 irons and wedges, where they used to hit 5 to 7 iron -- rings most true to me, if it's correct.  Is there really a four-to-five club difference now?  That's more than I expected. 

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

Wouldn't "softer" conditions at #12 necessarily lead to softer conditions elsewhere, and thus lower overall scores? Yet the winning score of -10 -- the highest in the past four years -- would indicate the course played slightly tougher than in recent years. 12 also played as the easiest par 3 at the Masters in 2008, when the winning score was -8 and conditions (cold, wind) were widely believed to make scoring difficult.

Phil:

A lot of variables are in play there.  Some holes may play more difficult in "soft" conditions -- it's not as easy to reach the par-5's in two, and balls tend to suck back off the greens on the steeper greens, like #6 and #16.  I didn't see enough of the tournament to get a sense of that.

[jeffwarne]

Patrick's idea -- that players now hit 9 irons and wedges, where they used to hit 5 to 7 iron -- rings most true to me, if it's correct.  Is there really a four-to-five club difference now?  That's more than I expected. 

C'mon
5 irons?
Sure on a windy day by Paul Runyan.
But on that same windy day they're not hitting wedge today.
Also, Today's 9 iron is a 1975 7 iron both in loft and length,so that's really not a change.

The hole is the least changed at Augusta.
It could be that across the board the players are simply better.

The ONLY thing that is different is that today's ball's are LESS affected by wind, which could make a huge difference on an unforseen swirl.

[Mike Policano]

Pat,

The easiest par 3 to birdie may be 16, especially with the middle to back left pin. And yes, the 13th at Pine Tree is a tougher hole than the 12th. They are both examples that short par 3's can be built that are fair and challenging for today's elite golfers. 

Cheers, Mike

[Phil McDade]

Pat,

The easiest par 3 to birdie may be 16, especially with the middle to back left pin.

Not in the aggregate. #12 had 59 birdies this year, compared to 41 for #16. Sure, there may be a pin or two that is easier to go at, and thus open the hole up to birdies, but this year's statistics suggest #16 has only one of those. Day-by-day birdies at the two holes:

#12: 13-19-15-12

#16: 3-25-5-8

So only day -- Friday -- was #16 easier to birdie, and that by only six birdies. #12 was far easier to birdie the other days.

But that, I think, is primarily a function of the two greens, which are drastically different -- one skinny and small, with probably only four decidedly different pin positions, and one rather large, deep, and full of contour, with some difficult pin positions in which to get the ball close.

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