Patrick Cantlay's day

[David_Tepper]

Phil McD. -

I did not mean to diminish P. Cantlay's chances of success as a professional golfer or his accomplishments so far (and I don't think I did). I simply pointed out that great success as an amateur by no means assures great success as a professional.  

I remember a thread here about the great amateur season Ryan Moore had and how he was a "can't miss" prospect for the professional ranks. He has since become one of many top amateurs who has yet to fulfill their perceived potential.    

The rigors of life as professional golfer are very, very different from those of an amateur, even for the very best ones.

DT

[George Pazin]

Phil McD. -

I did not mean to diminish P. Cantlay's chances of success as a professional golfer or his accomplishments so far (and I don't think I did). I simply pointed out that great success as an amateur by no means assures great success as a professional.  

I remember a thread here about the great amateur season Ryan Moore had and how he was a "can't miss" prospect for the professional ranks. He has since become one of many top amateurs who has yet to fulfill their perceived potential.    

The rigors of life as professional golfer are very, very different from those of an amateur, even for the very best ones.

DT

Ryan Moore has succeeded quite nicely as a pro. He's kept his card solidly every year, won over $11M in career earnings. He just hasn't won as much at the pro level as at the am level. Just goes to show you how tough it is to win as a pro; makes the careers of Tiger, Phil, etc., that much more impressive to me.

Having said all that, it's odd to me that Cantlay would claim to be bored by college golf. The best athletes in any sport are just driven to win, win, win at all costs. If one is bored at any level, I'd say he is a good candidate to be a check-cashing pro, rather than someone who is driven to win. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Phil McDade]

George:

On the other hand, do you think LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, and Dwight Howard (3 of the 20 best basketball players on the planet) would've been bored playing college hoops? Maby not bored, but I'm not sure they'd have been all that excited. They clearly didn't need to play college hoops to "get ready" for pro basketball. I'm not sure Derek Rose needed his one year at Memphis either.

[George Pazin]

I think Lebron et al would have reveled in destroying their college competition. Did they need it? Not by a long shot. Would it have helped? Doubtful, to me anyway. But they wouldn't have punched a clock, methinks. Put a different way, can you think of a single guy - I mean ONE - who was lackluster at lower levels and flourished as a pro in any sport? I can't, but maybe that's just me.

Competitors are competitors at all levels, in any competition, imho. It's a big part of what makes them different and special. And that's speaking as someone who is not special and not at all a competitor.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't know about anyone else...

But I wouldn't get much thrill out of taking a kid out to the basketball court and drubbing him time and time again.

If Cantlay really is at "Tiger God Level" in the college game, then I don't blame him for wanting to take the next step.

[JESII]

It's an interesting conversation.

I haven't seen any of Cantlay's golf but I probably don't need to, his numbers speak for themself. I went a Villanova basketball game 5 or 6 years ago and they had a good team. Texas came to town with a highly regarded freshman scorer named Kevin Durant. Durant looked totally disinterested in battling and scored a handful of points and his team lost. I left thinking this kid can't go anywhere with the weak attitude he showed in a tough environment. Two years later he led the NBA in scoring and has been an All Star just about each year. What do I know?

Tough to imagine Cantlay living up to any Tiger/Phil type expectations but hopefully he isn't putting them on himself...

[David_Tepper]

"Ryan Moore has succeeded quite nicely as a pro. He's kept his card solidly every year, won over $11M in career earnings. He just hasn't won as much at the pro level as at the am level. Just goes to show you how tough it is to win as a pro; makes the careers of Tiger, Phil, etc., that much more impressive to me."

George P. -

I didn't mean to diminish Ryan Moore's pro career. I know he has suffered some injuries. But, since turning pro in 2005, he has won just one tournament and, unless I am mistaken, he has yet to contend down the stretch in a major. Has he ever been ranked in the Top 25 in the world?

Ryan Moore pretty much swept the table in his last year as a amateur. Based on how is professional prospects were viewed back then, some might consider his pro career thus far to be a disappointment.

I totally agree that this does illustrate just how hard it is to be a dominant golfer at the professional level. That is why I am skeptical whenever the pro prospects of any top amateur are discussed.

DT    

[George Pazin]

It's an interesting conversation.

I haven't seen any of Cantlay's golf but I probably don't need to, his numbers speak for themself. I went a Villanova basketball game 5 or 6 years ago and they had a good team. Texas came to town with a highly regarded freshman scorer named Kevin Durant. Durant looked totally disinterested in battling and scored a handful of points and his team lost. I left thinking this kid can't go anywhere with the weak attitude he showed in a tough environment. Two years later he led the NBA in scoring and has been an All Star just about each year. What do I know?

Tough to imagine Cantlay living up to any Tiger/Phil type expectations but hopefully he isn't putting them on himself...

An interesting example, but it's worth noting that Durant didn't play that way his entire year, averaging 26 ppg and 11 rpg. Maybe he just had too many cheesesteaks...

David T, I vaguely recall Moore being top 25ish at Pebble in 2010, but that's a guess and that's about all I can recall; when I looked him up earlier it said he was #70 in the world rankings. I guess the question for Cantlay is, will he be a successful pro ala Phil, ala Ryan Moore, or ala Casey Wittenberg?

It's sobering to think about Ryan Moore not living up to his potential. He's #70 among all people on the planet! Tough to call that not living up to one's potential.

[Tim Gavrich]

The disposition that it takes to say one is "bored with college golf" does not strike me as one that will get him far as a pro.  Nor is the one that caused him to choke away last year's U.S. Amateur.  And to boot, I've heard some not-at-all complimentary anecdotes about how he's treated fans at the pro tournaments he's played in, which I would hope are exaggerated.

Jim--

Given the kind of player Kevin Durant is and the level of respect he seems to command from the media and peers (a stark contrast to, say Dwight Howard), it's evident he's grown up a great deal since that nonchalant game you saw while he was at UT.  Perhaps Cantlay will do the same.

[JMEvensky]

It's sobering to think about Ryan Moore not living up to his potential. He's #70 among all people on the planet! Tough to call that not living up to one's potential.

I agree.Seems like we always want to compare great amateurs (any sport) with the absolute best professionals.RM was a great amateur and is a very solid pro.

It makes me realize just how great Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus were--not how much the others have failed.

[David_Tepper]

"It's sobering to think about Ryan Moore not living up to his potential. He's #70 among all people on the planet! Smiley Tough to call that not living up to one's potential."

George P. -

If a dominant amateur career only translates to being ranked 70th in the world, it again illustrates just how wide the gap is between amateur and professional golf.

Ultimately, I suppose the only thing that really matters is whether Ryan Moore thinks he has lived up to his potential. i doubt he is spending much time worrying about what we think.

DT

[Phil McDade]

The disposition that it takes to say one is "bored with college golf" does not strike me as one that will get him far as a pro.  Nor is the one that caused him to choke away last year's U.S. Amateur.  And to boot, I've heard some not-at-all complimentary anecdotes about how he's treated fans at the pro tournaments he's played in, which I would hope are exaggerated.

Tim:

I think "choke" is just too strong a word for what happened to Cantlay last year...and to suggest that one shot is a precursor to how he'll perform as a pro is silly.

The guy hit a lousy shot under pressure. Happens to everyone -- basketball, golf, baseball -- at every level of sport.

I don't know whether or not Cantlay's a jerk. Maybe everyone's just mis-reading him:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/sports/golf/patrick-cantlay-resists-pressure-to-join-pga.html?pagewanted=all

[Mark Johnson]

The decision to "turn pro" will not be as clearcut as in the path.

Due to the new PGA tour qualifying rules where you get credit for finishes an an amateur, you wouldn't have to declare yourself a pro until the q school/playoff/thatthreetourney thing.

Spieth, Cantley, etc. will play in their 7 sponsor exemption on the PGA tour plus a bunch on the nationwide this summer plus potentialy anything they can Monday into.   If they do well and would finish in top 200, then they will be pro for the playoffs.   If not, they go back to college and try again next year.

[Mark Johnson]

No.   They can pro in pro event as amateurs, but they get credit for "earnings"  in order to get into the q-school.


They wont earn actually money in these tourneys, but they can use them to get status just like any pro would.

[JESII]

Regarding his general prospects; I would simply say that from what I've observed in golf, like speed, you can't teach a player to make birdies but you can teach one not to make bogeys (and quadrouples...).

[Kevin_Reilly]

If they decide to turn pro after "earning" enough, would they get that money retroactively? I'm thinking nyet but curious.

No, the money has already gone out to the real pro's.

[Stewart Naugler]

Just wait until he learns how to eliminate the "big miss".

I always had the talent to card 5 or 6 birdies a round but I could never eliminate the big miss. If Patrick can do that... He'll be a star.

I love his attitude towards possibly maintaining his amateur status over turning pro. He often reminds reporters of how amateurs were much more respected than pro's in the early 1900's. Which isn't hard to believe when you have a character like Walter Hagen representing the pro game and a gentleman like Bobby Jones representing the amateur game.

I wonder if Patrick's tempo will continue to lead to the occasional blow up because he has a very smooth back swing that transitions into a very quick down swing. His hips fire so fast that his arms and shoulders tend to get stuck behind his lower body.

[Joel_Stewart]

Shot 69-71 his first 2 days at Pasatiempo in the Western Intercollegiate.   He's a few shots out of 1st place.  We'll see how he does today.