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Mark Saltzman

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Entrance




Clubhouse






Aerials can be seen here: http://www.palmettogolfclub.net/coursephotos.htm


Hole 1: P4, 387 Yards - tame downhill opener with great green.  Not sure of the timeline, but one has to wonder if Maxwell if influenced the good doctor with these downhill openers.












Hole 2: P4, 368 Yards - Another shortish par-4 with a great green and surrounding contours.  Bunkers protect ideal line and a cross-bunker keeps longer hitters in check.

















Hole 3: Par 4, 455 Yards - Brutally difficult, uphill p4.  Blind tee shot is just the first difficulty.  The approach is played to a green protected right by bunkering, a massive false-front and OB left.














Hole 4: Par 4, 402 Yards - A hole that use the natural contour of land the land perfectly.  Play left to allow for the kick to the right.  Like the 6th green at Ross Charlotte CC, this green is perched on a plateau with any miss right being dead.

















Hole 5: Par 4, 458 Yards - Though it's the 5th par-4 in a row, there is enough variety in the holes to maintain interest.  As severe a green as I have ever seen.

















Hole 6: Par 5, 464 Yards - From the Club website: It is relatively short and two well played shots can result in an eagle putt on the green.  Two fairway bunkers on the right narrow the fairway in the landing area for long drives.  Approaches to the green  are guarded by trees, a fairway bunker on the left 75 yards from the green and a deep greenside bunker positioned on the front right.  The two-tiered green has some subtle breaks and severe slopes which often disappoint those overly eager to get back a stroke.
















Hole 7: Par 3, 180 Yards - Amazing golf hole.  Tiny green perched above a huge drop-off right.  Shots missed right can easily mean double or X.




















Hole 8: P4, 441 Yards - Grounds slope hard left into a duo of fairway bunkers that are blind from the tee.  Ideal line must challenge the trees on the right.  Green is unusually squared-off for Dr. Mack.


















Hole 9: Par 3, 187 Yards - From the Club website: Due to the uphill terrain this hole plays much longer than the listed distance. The green has a large mound on the left behind a deep pot bunker.  A large pine on the right side of the green overhangs a bunker which stretches along the entire right hand side.  With the hole tucked on the back right, the tee shot will challenge the best of players. The backside of the green drops off so that a long shot will yield a difficult chip back to a sloping green.








« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 05:57:09 PM by Mark Saltzman »

Mike Sweeney

Keep going please.

Fabulous place with great people.

John Mayhugh

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Hole 1: P4, 387 Yards - tame downhill opener with great green.  Not sure of the timeline, but one has to wonder if Maxwell if influenced the good doctor with these downhill openers.

Leeds was responsible for most of the routing.  Mackenzie converted greens from sand to grass & lengthened the course.

The green is pretty much on the same level as the tee.  It's a downhill tee shot, but the approach is back uphill.  A really good green, but not easy to photograph.

Thanks for the photos.

Chris Johnston

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Great photos of a very cool place!

Keep em coming!

jeffwarne

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Hole 1: P4, 387 Yards - tame downhill opener with great green.  Not sure of the timeline, but one has to wonder if Maxwell if influenced the good doctor with these downhill openers.

Leeds was responsible for most of the routing.  Mackenzie converted greens from sand to grass & lengthened the course.

The green is pretty much on the same level as the tee.  It's a downhill tee shot, but the approach is back uphill.  A really good green, but not easy to photograph.

Thanks for the photos.

Correct Mackenzie did not do the routing.

#1 green is WELL below the tee, despite the uphill nature of the second shot
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jud_T

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Mark,

Thanks for posting these.  This place has intrigued me for quite a while.  That back pin on 5 looks brutal to try and get back to!
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ben Sims

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Mark,

Thanks for posting these.  This place has intrigued me for quite a while.  That back pin on 5 looks brutal to try and get back to!

Jud,

Back right is the most par'd, least birdied position.  It's not the most difficult pin by a long shot, as long as you don't attack it and go right.  By far the hardest pin is the front left.  The huge fall off in front of the green is only 2-3 paces from that pin and anything 2-3 yards long will be above the hole.  Then you're dead.  If you're right of that pin, you're near the center of the green and you're above the pin.  Again, dead.  If you miss left you're chipping up a significant slope onto a fast green.  Close to dead. 

In my 20 plays or so, I've seen it front left about 5 times.  If it is there, I play center green yardage and hope.  Comparing it to other local MacKenzie greens, I think #5 at Palmetto has the ability to be as scary as just about anything across the river at ANGC.  Well, except for a front pin on 9 at ANGC.  Yikes. 

This is as good a Palmetto grouping of pics as I have seen.  But you guys ought to see it this week.  It looks--and plays--wonderfully.

Jud_T

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Ben,

Thanks.  I also really like the look of the dormant rough.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Mayhugh

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The green is pretty much on the same level as the tee.  It's a downhill tee shot, but the approach is back uphill.  A really good green, but not easy to photograph.

#1 green is WELL below the tee, despite the uphill nature of the second shot

I've only been to Palmetto once, but thought that the green and tees were close to the same elevation. 

I just took a look at Google Maps, and it gives me 490 ft elevation for the tee and 484 for the green.  I know it's not the most accurate tool, but sort of confirms how I remember the hole.

Mark Saltzman

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Hole 10: Par 5, 518 Yards

From the Club Website: Tall pines line the left of the teeing area and the fairway is guarded by a bunker on the right running the full length of the landing area.  There is a cross bunker on the right side of the fairway about 300 yards from the tee that can come into play for long tee shots.  The second shot looks fairly wide open but the fairway narrows considerably 70 yards from the green with long bunkers on both sides extending toward the green.  These bunkers aren’t visible from where the second shot is played.  Even if the player lays up, the third shot is to a modest size, typically firm green which drops off in all directions.  The putting surface, with its subtle breaks, is one of the most difficult to read on the entire course.








Hole 11: Par 3, 170 Yards - Drop

100 plus foot drop to a green surrounded completely by fairway cut (and a couple of bunkers).  Interesting kidney shape to the green, something like the 7th at Crystal Downs turned 90 degrees.












Hole 12: Par 4, 448 Yards

Another long par-4 that plays uphill.  There is more room to the right than it appears, and shots that try to cut off too much will find bunker, trees or worse.  One of the most subtle greens (not much internal contouring) but most difficult (very sloped back-to-front) greens on the golf course..











Hole 13: Par 4, 423 Yards

Another long par-4 that plays uphill! Phenomenal example of a single fairway bunker that can seriously dictate play and strategy on a hole.  Green is protected by a very deep bunker to the right.















Hole 14: Par 5, 550 Yards

An old ditch runs diagonally across the fairway.  Longer hitters are kept in check as they can reach this hazard from the tee.  A large bunker runs down the LZ for the lay-up area -- lovely shaping that cannot be mistaken for anything but Mackenzie. 

















Hole 15: Par 4, 338 Yards - this is the way back tee, most play this hole from well under 300 yards and it is great from there.

Finding the green from the tee requires the golfer play well to the right to allow for the grounds contours which well send the ball caroming to the left.  The big problem is that any tee shot that misses in the right rough will be nearly impossible to chip onto the green which slopes severely away from that angle.  Golfers have been known to chip from the right edge of the green through the putting surface and OB, which lays perilously just several feet off the left edge of the green.  This is all the short par-4 one could ever want.













Hole 16: Par 3, 215 Yards

A long trek to reach the 16th and it is not the most inspiring on the course -- wouldn't surprise me if this hole received criticism.  While it looks easy, more than a few bogies will be carded here.  Playing subtly uphill, with deceptive bunkering and guarded long and short by a steep run-off, the utmost in precision is needed to walk away with 3.
 













Hole 17: Par 4, 394 Yards

From the Club website: As the name indicates, the fairway slopes severely from the tee.  The drive is the only blind shot on the course.  Woods line the entire right side of the hole and the left is guarded by a row of pines.  A well placed fairway bunker on the right will catch wayward drives.  The second shot is over a dale to a large green that slopes from the left to the back right.  A mound and bunker on the right and a large bunker on the left protect the putting surface.  The undulations on this green yield a number of very difficult hole positions.








Hole 18: Par 4, 315 Yards

Fairway bunkers were recently added [restored?] to add more interest to the lay-up here.  Most golfers will [or should] choose to lay back short of the penal fairway bunkers that narrow the fairway 70-100 yards short of the green.  Longer hitters will have the chance to try to drive the green, especially if the forward/left tee is used.










John Shimp

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 06:25:32 PM »
Mark
Great photos. Thank you.

I was there about 2 hours ago and caught up with a large R&A contingent who had just played for the first time.  They all loved it, thought it was hard, and the most talkative guy likened it to St Georges Hill in England.  Ive never played it.  Anyone see the likeness that has played both?

jeffwarne

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 08:00:09 PM »
Mark
Great photos. Thank you.

I was there about 2 hours ago and caught up with a large R&A contingent who had just played for the first time.  They all loved it, thought it was hard, and the most talkative guy likened it to St Georges Hill in England.  Ive never played it.  Anyone see the likeness that has played both?

Mark,
great photos.

John,
How long are you there for this week?
I arrive Friday afternoon
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Shimp

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 08:11:25 PM »
Jeff,
Unfortunately only today. Taking the family on spring break for a few days starting tomorrow.

We need to sync up down there!

jeffwarne

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2012, 08:15:04 PM »
Jeff,
Unfortunately only today. Taking the family on spring break for a few days starting tomorrow.

We need to sync up down there!

You couldn't convince your family that Augusta was the place to be for spring break?
That's my story ;D ;D
Grandma's got a pool!
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Sweeney

Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 08:26:11 PM »
I really believe this is an All World hole:


Thoughts?

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 08:43:08 PM »
Mike, it's probably the most photogenic hole on the golf course, but I don't think it's the best. What makes it an all world hole in your eyes?

Eric Smith

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 08:46:38 PM »
Fabulous tour, Mark.  Palmetto is most certainly easy on the eyes and I'm just finding out how long it is on memorability.  Looking through your photos I can remember every hole after having played there just the one time during the 2009 Dixie Cup.  The experience itself was priceless; being the recipient of a most fortuitous pairing with Dr. Joe Spencer, a wonderful gentleman and past president at PGC, who took it upon himself to snatch victory from the jaws of Messrs Jones and McBride on the final hole of our back and forth match!  I'd bet anything those boys are still reeling. ;D

John's comment above re: St Georges Hill is intriguing. I have never played SGH but do hope someone who has played both courses will weigh in on the R&A gentleman's comment.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 08:58:43 PM »
Mike, it's probably the most photogenic hole on the golf course, but I don't think it's the best. What makes it an all world hole in your eyes?

In Top 10 David Letterman fashion:

1. I love the visual from the tee, and I don't apologize for liking eye candy.

2. I love the angles off the tee, safe vs aggressive.

3. It seems that BIG BIG hitters, not me, can attack the trees and make it a very short hole.

4. I like uphill approach shots that are slightly if not fully blind.



5. I like that you can tuck a pin left on the green to make a hard birdie or place it right and make an "easy" birdie.  

6. I hit a right to left ball most of the time and this hole sets up perfectly for my game.  ;)

7. To be fair, I don't remember the green, but every green at Palmetto was at least good.

8. Pat Mucci has not played there!!

9. They have a cool logo!

10. Tom Moore will give me a golf history lesson in the clubhouse after 6 more holes!

scott_wood

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 09:18:14 PM »
I nominate Mike Sweeney's response as  the early  leader for "Best Response of 2012"..
Well done, Mike.......especially the last, Tom Moore, may be  THE best part of Palmetto.....

John Shimp

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 09:19:57 PM »
Great tour!   One of the coolest things about Palmetto is that the holes that look the tamest are often the most dangerous.  

16 is a good example.  It looks like a raised green in a field (which it is) but it requires a ton of care to score and avoid a big number.  Left and long are dead.  The green has a lot of break and the short game options short (lob, hybrid bump, shrt iron bump, putt) of the green confuse every time i pay it.  

Approaches to 15 and 17 are similar in that tey look harmless but arent.

Ben Sims

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2012, 09:58:26 PM »
Most comments re: Palmetto are correct thus far.  Tom Moore is certainly a treasure and deserves the lion's share of credit for making Palmetto what I have come to love in my brief but familiar time at PGC.  But to overlook Rhett Baker, Brooks Blackburn and Woody Millen's impact is to be naive towards what it takes to make a great club. 

The variety of holes and memorability of shots weigh heavy.  The greens can be both subtle and scary.  The work done by Tom Doak and then Gil Hanse over the past 9 years is also a huge bonus.  A Sean Arble kind of place is there ever was one. 

This is as good a place as any to say that to anyone in town this week, please get in touch and I'll try to meet up.  Pray for no rain, because if it does, I might not be getting done until midnight. 

Bruce Wellmon

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2012, 11:25:46 PM »
Palmetto is such a gem. One of my friends was a member for many years. He was very proud of the history of the club and tried like crazy to win The Devareux. (I'm sure I misspelled that).Although, he never did. And I never played in it with him as he always played with his brother. Our rounds there, however, were certainly memorable.
There was an overhanging tree on 12 tee that made the tee shot scary. Didn't look to be there now.
13 is a brute up the hill.
14, Crazy Creek.
Palmetto is a must play.

Niall Hay

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2012, 11:41:59 AM »
Played on Friday. Agree with anyone who says this is a must play. Among the best green complexes I ever played (reminded many in my group of Pinehurst No. 2). Greens were perfect (smooth and fast), tightness around the greens made the short game essential (and extremely difficult). It was windy and chilly in AM - made it a challenge as well as the longest 6600 yard course in US.  Tom and all of the staff certainly contributed to make it one of the most enjoyable days of golf this side of the Atlantic.

Niall Hay

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Hole 1: P4, 387 Yards - tame downhill opener with great green.  Not sure of the timeline, but one has to wonder if Maxwell if influenced the good doctor with these downhill openers.

Leeds was responsible for most of the routing.  Mackenzie converted greens from sand to grass & lengthened the course.


Correct Mackenzie did not do the routing.


So sort of like Cypress Point with Raynor doing the majority of the routing?

Niall Hay

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Re: Palmetto Golf Club (Dr. Mackenzie) Nov 2011 Photo Tour - All 18 Up!
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2012, 11:45:52 AM »
I really believe this is an All World hole:


Thoughts?

Mike, I agree with you 100% on this.

Mark, thanks again for the incredible pics.

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