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Geoffrey_Walsh

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Bandon vs. Scotland
« on: April 02, 2012, 08:01:43 PM »
Never been to either place and I live on the East Coast of the US (Philly).  Factoring in travel, cost, quality of golf, time and the overall experience... where would you recommend I go for a 3-5 day trip?

To that end, I would love to see a side by side cost comparison of a quality trip to Scotland (including TOC) versus Bandon.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 08:07:03 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Jud_T

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2012, 08:05:26 PM »
Geoffrey,

See prior posts on the subject.  It simply depends on what you want to get out of the trip.  Both are fantastic.  If you want the best possible golf 24/7 in one location with less jet lag and no customs, Bandon's the ticket.  If you are looking for a bit more of a cultural experience and have been jonesing to play Prestwick and the Old Course (not a bad thing IMO) head east...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bill Brightly

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 08:07:52 PM »
For only 3-5 days, I would say Bandon, because you can get in so much golf in and there is nothing else to do.  However, Scotland is next on my list and I keep wanting to add more than 10 days...because there is so much golf and also non-golf things to do.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 08:16:34 PM by Bill Brightly »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 08:16:32 PM »
I've been to Bandon twice and can't wait to go back. I will live the rest of my days quite content that I will never see Scotland. It's a Mike or Melvyn kind of thing.

Frank M

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 08:28:46 PM »
I'd have to lean towards Bandon.

Less headaches for 3 - 5 days.

David_Tepper

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 08:29:58 PM »
Geoffrey W. -

Brent Hutto started a thread along these lines that turned into a very lengthy discussion just a week or two ago. If you go back thru a couple pages of topics, you should be able to find it.

I live in San Francisco, but I have never been to Bandon. On the other hand, I have been to Scotland 16 times in the past 8 years. ;)

DT  


Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 08:30:46 PM »
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51483.0.html

In my recent consideration of a similar question (except more about England than Scotland in my case) my conclusion was if you're traveling with four or eight or some similar number of golf-obsessed friend it's a pretty clear decision that Bandon is the first choice even from the east coast. Traveling alone or even with one other person I think it's a close call and you have to ask yourself mostly two questions in deciding.

1) Is having a second, third and even a four course that are world-class quality right in one place important to you vs. having to either travel around or stick mostly to one really fine course.

2) How attractive do you find the prospect of being at an all-golf all-the-time environment vs. an environment that's exposed you to bit and pieces of everyday life in a (somewhat) foreign culture?

Choosing Scotland gets more attractive to my mind as the length of you stay increases and as the number of golfers in your group decreases. Staying for 10 day as a solo golfer I'd think Scotland hands-down. Only three days in a group of eight I'd say Bandon hands-down. But as most trips are somewhere between those extremes it's a judgment call.

Jud_T

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 08:31:31 PM »
Missed the 3-5 day thing.  You need a solid week to go to Scotland IMO....and I'm with JK.  I love going to GB&I and England's high on my list, but I can't really see going abroad again in the near future with Bandon around and some of the new places springing up...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Dan King

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 08:36:17 PM »
I personally love Scotland. Many of my favorite memories in golf are centered in Scotland. However, 3-5 days is no more than an amuse-bouche of Scottish golf. If the decision is to go to Scotland, concentrate on a single area, so you can play courses multiple times. I would hold off on Scotland until you can spend at least two weeks there.

With just 3-5 days I would go to Bandon. It ain't cheap, but it is about as good a time as you have with your clothes on. With five days you can play each course at least twice, and then pick from there where you want to put some more rounds. I personally would dedicate at least one day to Sheep Ranch, but I'm sure there are some here that would strongly disagree.  

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
You have to play golf in Scotland. What else is there to do there? Wear a skirt?
  --George Low

Mac Plumart

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 08:42:31 PM »
It is a win-win.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Keith Phillips

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 09:10:01 PM »
Missed the 3-5 day thing.  You need a solid week to go to Scotland IMO

Don't disagree that longer is better for Scotland, but a buddy and I did a quick trip from New York a few years back - Wednesday night redeye to EDI, won the lottery and played TOC Thursday afternoon - evening at Rusack's then played Kingsbarns and Carnoustie Thursday - drove to the Turnberry Hotel Thursday afternoon and played both courses at Turnberry Friday - then on to Loch Lomond for 36 Saturday and back on first flight Sunday morning from Glasgow - the whole experience was bliss except I wouldn't ever recommend driving from Carnoustie to Turnberry after 36 holes one day removed from a redeye!

I've been to Scotland several times and am making my second trip to Bandon in June.  I agree that Bandon is phenomenal and arguably the best concentration of golf on the planet, but for an East Coast golfer who has never been to either, I would argue strongly for Scotland - easier to get to, outstanding and varied golf, great castles and pubs and accents - all told, an experience that cannot be replicated in Oregon.

Chris_Hufnagel

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 09:25:28 PM »
I would say hard to go too wrong...

I have been to Bandon four times and Scotland just once - given the 3-5 day window I would probably lean towards Bandon.  I just got back from five days there and it the place gets better each time...it truly is on of my favorite places in the world.  

One thing to keep in mind however is that I genuinely think Scotland is easier to get to from the east coast (US) than Bandon is - especially if you are considering the United connection from SFO to North Bend and back out again.  I would love to see some 'on-time' statistics for those flights and even more interested to see how many golf bags get left for the next flight due to weight restrictions...

My one time to Scotland I landed in Glasgow after the red-eye from Newark and was teeing off at Turnberry that afternoon and couldn't have felt any better...

Whatever you decide, enjoy it!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 09:30:29 PM by Chris Hufnagel »

Andy Stamm

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 10:24:16 PM »
Personally, I'd go east for reasons of cost (among others). For example a 5 day ticket at Machrihanish (a fine, fine course with a wee course to boot) can be had for about $450. What's that 1 day of golf at Bandon in the summer? A nice B & B can probably be had at a rate cheaper than Bandon accommodations as well.

Of course this itinerary is limited to one course, but especially on a short trip, that'd be fine with me. And of course the money saved could be put toward additional courses. But on a short trip I would not play courses that are far apart or play more than a small few courses.

Colin Macqueen

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 10:28:05 PM »
Geoffrey,

Do not abandon Scotland!

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Brad Tufts

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 10:32:27 PM »
I feel like Bandon is the answer for ease of travel in a shorter time frame.

Scotland is fantastic, but the bigger time change plus the air connections make it more difficult.

I think from Boston or NYC, or wherever else on the east coast Aer Lingus flies from...Ireland as a venue makes this a more interesting argument, as direct flights to Shannon or Dublin make things easier (not to mention Shannon is only 5.5h or less flight from BOS or NYC).

Ireland is also cheaper than both.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Keith Phillips

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2012, 11:03:20 PM »
I feel like Bandon is the answer for ease of travel in a shorter time frame.

Scotland is fantastic, but the bigger time change plus the air connections make it more difficult.


Not true if you are close to Newark airport - the travel is WAY easier - non-stop flights to Edinburgh or Glasgow (or London or Manchester or Birmingham or Dublin or Shannon or...) - and the great thing is you sleep on the way over, go straight to the links upon arrival, then on the way home you pick up 5 hours on a nice daytime flight and can enjoy dinner at home.  For my June trip to Bandon I am taking a 5 hour flight to SFO, then hoping the connection to North Bend goes smoothly, then again trusting the connection on the way home.  Bandon is awesome, but it has to be given the logistical disadvantages.

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2012, 11:14:04 PM »
I had a 5 day trip to Bandon and a 5 day trip to Scotland
I give them both a 10
Forced at gunpoint to choose, I'd give Scotland an 11 out of 10

If you want a practical reason, use the current exchange rate

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 03:02:46 AM »
Keith - 95% of Brits will be scratching their heads at why you drove from Carnoustie to play Turnberry when you could have saved hours driving all that way there and had a far shorter journey onto Loch Lomond.

For shorter Scottish trips fly into Glasgow and just play Ayrshire - Prestwick, Troon and the Gailes.
Fly into Edinburgh for East Lothian - Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane and a host more OR Fife and St Andrews.
Cave Nil Vino

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 06:08:23 AM »
I always forget how close Philadelphia is to the Newark airport. There's also, if I'm not mistaken, daily non-stop flights between Philadelphia and Glasgow.

If I lived within an hour or so of the Philly airport my personal choice would be to fly into Glasgow, rent a car and drive up to Dornoch, play two days at Royal Dornoch and one day at Brora then drive back to Glasgow. Pitlochry is a neat stopping off point near the halfway point between.

So here's my advice.

Day 1: Morning arrive into Glasgow, drive to Pitlochry (hour forty-five), play Pitlochry to shake off the cobwebs, first night sleep there.
Day 2: Play a 36-hole day at Dornoch, either RDGC and the Struie on a day ticket or twice around the big course.
Day 3: Go play a 36-hole at Brora.
Day 4: Final round at Royal Dornoch, depart mid-afternoon for Glasgow, spend the night near the airport.
Day 5: Early morning departure to Philly, home by dinner time.

Your total travel time including the drive up to Dornoch is a couple hours longer each way than Bandon, at most. Flight cost will be several hundred more. Golf+lodging will be several hundred less. I should thing RDGC is as fine a course as any at Bandon but may be wrong (not having been to Bandon) and I love Brora unreasonably much, although perhaps most would see it as a big step down from, say, the Bandon Dunes course.

Or if you can't face a

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 06:15:20 AM »
From what I have read and the photos I have seen of Bandon it does makes sense to enjoy ones stay for 5 days. New or good quality courses need to be savoured and enjoyed, like a good single malt. A drinker who knows his stuff will advise a drop of water, no more than a tea spoon full of water (not ice) should be added to the single malt to dissipate the oils thus getting the full flavour rather than the fierceness of flavour. The same applies to golf courses, they need to be played over and over again. Like adding a drop of water to a single malt, one should play each new or unfamiliar course twice, once in the morning once in the afternoon to experience the potential quality available. Rush and play a single round and you are left with the equivalent of that fierceness of flavour. The joy which should have been experienced, having been lost in trying to understand too much in just a single round.

In Scotland we produce our golf courses as we produce our single malts, there for the individual to enjoy and hopefully eager to re-experience.  But first you need to know how to fully understand this new experience. The only way is to savour the moment, take your time and give your senses the time and freedom to embrace life at a slower and steadier pace.

Wham bam thank you Mam speedy approach trying to cram in so much leaves the individual poorer with little to no memory let alone the experience perhaps with only photos to recapture some of the memories. Too many come to Scotland trying to squeeze twice as many courses as they should within their time here. Quality is what I thought a golfer would seek not quantity. To study the different light upon the course between the morning and afternoon round is to enrich you experience, then to enjoy a good luncheon between the rounds and still have time to study the history of the club and golf while enjoying that other great product of Scotland our single malts.

To be honest the same thing applies where ever you travel to play golf, get to know and remember each club/course as it will be that memory together with the understanding gained at the time that will stay with you forever. Never rush a good experience, take your time and you will, I am certain want to repeat it, so do so, but allow adequate time and don’t try and play 14 courses in 14 days, that is an act of lunacy and is not value for money in anyway.

Quality always wins out, while quantity waters down quality until it’s difficult to distinguish which is which. After paying the air fare, travel costs, hotels, Green Fees and drink bills, not to mention travelling time surely you want to come away with real Golden Memories not just the photos.

So Bandon vs. Scotland, that’s down to the individual, but Scotland has many little gems, great courses, historical links courses, golfing history and nearly the same amount of courses as distilleries producing the ‘Water of Life’.

You decide who you think will be the winner.

Melvyn  
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 06:39:51 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2012, 06:22:40 AM »
Brent why fly to Glasgow miss a 45 minute drive to the Ayrshire coast which is packed with great 1st and 2nd and 3rd tier links courses and drive 4 hours to Dornoch? The far north is great for a week to ten day tour, if it's a flier then you wouldn't want to go more than an hour from the gateway airport.
Cave Nil Vino

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2012, 06:41:54 AM »
Brent why fly to Glasgow miss a 45 minute drive to the Ayrshire coast which is packed with great 1st and 2nd and 3rd tier links courses and drive 4 hours to Dornoch? The far north is great for a week to ten day tour, if it's a flier then you wouldn't want to go more than an hour from the gateway airport.

Quite right, of course. Sometimes I come up with funny ideas at 6am, halfway through my morning coffee!

Keith Phillips

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2012, 06:55:44 AM »
Keith - 95% of Brits will be scratching their heads at why you drove from Carnoustie to play Turnberry when you could have saved hours driving all that way there and had a far shorter journey onto Loch Lomond.

For shorter Scottish trips fly into Glasgow and just play Ayrshire - Prestwick, Troon and the Gailes.
Fly into Edinburgh for East Lothian - Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane and a host more OR Fife and St Andrews.


Mark I totally agree and have done the Ayrshire trip several times - when I was a Loch Lomond member my standard itinerary was to fly into Glasgow, rent a car and head straight to Loch Lomond and tee it up around 9am, play 36 and crash like a baby around 8pm the first night (I do sleep very well on red-eyes so always got 4+ hours on the way over), then head down to Ayrshire to play Troon, Prestwick, Western Gailes and Dundonald, often finishing in Turnberry.  I have since bailed on LLGC and fallen in love with Fife and East Lothian - the older I get the more I like to park myself for a few days and enjoy the 'lesser' courses (Crail etc)  - the Carnoustie-to-Turnberry leg on the trip described was insane, but was chosen to help fill my buddy's bucket list of courses in Scotland for this particular trip (naturally he fell asleep the moment we got in the car so I had to do all the driving!)

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 06:58:49 AM »
For 3-5 days, Bandon's the obvious call. Anything less than 10 days for a foray to Scotland...you're just cheating yourself. Those 15 courses in 7 days excercises are nothing but mind blurring, trunk(boot) slamming mistakes in my view. Take the time, linger in the town areas some and really soak up the experiences. You'll never forget your time there..unless you're overserved and the single malts get ya!  

For a total experience, it can't even be considered close. Everyone who plays the game and values golf as an important part of their life, that can afford it, deserves to treat themselves to a least one go to Scotland. Links golf and the surrounding culture, where it all began, simply has no peer.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 07:06:26 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Rich Goodale

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Re: Bandon vs. Scotland
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 07:09:00 AM »
Geoffrey

As Keith describes eloquently above, travel wise from Philly it is a no-brainer to go to Scotland rather than Bandon, all other things being equal.  Of course, no things are equal.  There is no "Bandon" in Scotland and no "Scotland" in Bandon.  Scotland is a Nation, of which golf is an important part of its fabric, but there are no golf enclaves there--even including St. Andrews, and there are hugely interesting and important thingts to see outside of your golf.  On the other hand, Bandon is a hick town in Oregon, outside of which there exists a pure golfing enclave, Bandon Dunes.  If you want pure golf, surrounded by like-minded golfers, in a place designed to cater to that ilk, go to Bandon.  If you want random golf, from the sublime to the ridiculous, surrounded by world-class scenery and culture, go to Scotland.  REgardless of what you choose, enjoy.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

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