[Melvyn Morrow]

The British Open is played on courses that are unfamiliar to me and in conditions that usually don't suit golf.

How many on this site are unfamiliar with TOC or any of the other traditional venues of The Open?

Finally do the Members consider that these venues for The Open are not suitable for the game of golf, noting that this is the very environment that the modern game (the Scottish modern game for the last 400-600 years) started from and has since been played upon? Not to mention the basics of some of the greatest courses in the world.

Melvyn

Will walking soon be links to this way of thinking (links courses not suitable for The Open) or has it already affected the minds of players, hence No Walking courses.  Is there no cure for this invasive virus that is rendering commitment, skill and rising to the challenge redundant? Might as well just play golf games on the computer, saves the expensive procedure of designing, building and maintaining a golf course.   

[Mac Plumart]

That is quite a disappointing comment...but, frankly, not surprising.  Sad, in fact.

[Jon Wiggett]

Melvyn,

it is difficult for people who have never seen a links course before to imagine it as an golfing environment let alone the ultimate. The stories of players facing the challenge of TOC and not liking it the first time but praising it as the best course after multiple plays are many. With the environmental issues facing the world I believe that links style courses will still be hare long after the likes of Augusta have changed beyond recognition.

Jon

[Ronald Montesano]

I just found your source and believe that you should PM he who is quoted, to determine what his basis is for said statement (experience, etc.)

My personal opinion is this: golf, being an outdoor game, should be contested over all grasses/playing fields, on all types of courses, in all types of weather. In my ideal (read: incredibly balanced) world, we would have a cool/cold weather major; a rainy weather major, a major on bent, bermuda, fescue grasses; a major in the mountains, a major over sand...and the list goes on.

I believe that golf's secrets reveal themselves to us over time, as with life. Experience is the great teacher. Nevertheless, rain and wind are not everyone's cup of tee and opinions are as free as litter.

My vote goes for "The British Open is played on courses that are FAMILIAR to me and in conditions that ALWAYS suit golf."

[Michael George]

Mac - you are so right.  Not surprising in the least.

Melvyn - I would say that the complete opposite is true.  Most here truly appreciate the great links of that area.  In fact, I am disappointed that great courses like Royal Dornoch, Royal County Down, Royal Portrush and Royal Aberdeen are not included in the rotation.  Dornoch and Portrush would really be ideal because it stays light for so long that they could play later in the day and us selfish Americans could watch it later in the day

[Bill_McBride]

Melvyn, that really is a nonsensical statement.   There's a reason the Open Championship is always played on links.  (I'd love to see it return to Royal Cinque Ports!)

[Ed Brzezowski]

Melvyn,
We have had some good discussions but I could never suscribe to your basic " truth". To me it is a very bigotted view to say it should be one way and none other are valid. Sounds like the Catholic Church in the dark ages. Or the south during our issues in the 1960"s.

Can you really say Merion , Oakmont or Winged Foot are lesser courses?? I have played a fair amount of links golf and sincerely love it. However I love the above three also and think the world of golf should be able to include links golf,parkland courses and whatever other folks may enjoy.

I enjoy your viewpoint and your passion but i do not believe golf should be so single minded. The game is struggling and we should find a way to open it up to more people.

ed

[Dan Herrmann]

Golf is the beautiful game.  Where else can you play in the dunes along the sea, or in the moutains among the pines, or the prarie, or in a city, or in the desert, or in a beautiful landscaped park setting.

Yes, it all started at TOC, but it's grown but stays true to its roots.

Aye, it's a great game played in great places. 

[Kalen Braley]

Is Scott Hoch a GCA.com member?   

I think this is pretty self-explanatory as an absurd statement.  Links golf is fantastic, and even when I can expose my "Pakland" buddies to it, they love it too.

The closest thing I have to it here int he Spokane are is Wine Valley, sans the ocean.  I was supposed to be down there playing it today, but the damn weather has been a Royal Pain....

[Chris DeNigris]

Before this thread goes much further- The statement Melvyn cites in the OP is misleading, taken out of context, and really a bit unfair to the poster who made it in a different (active) thread. The poster's next sentence extolled TOC and wished that all Opens could be played there.

A little like MSM editing here.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ed

Not My words, just a question on a serious comment make by another Member – I have just asked the question if Members support this point of view. More so his final point “ and in conditions that usually don't suit golf”.
Links golf not suitable for golf wow and we wonder what’s wrong with golf today - Had I said that crap I would have received a lot of abuse, however as its seems that a fellow American sprouts such comments few want to say anything – if you can’t get the basics right what right have you to talk about GCA. I have not mentioned other regions just stayed with the above comment, so don’t go trying to put words in my mouth.


Dan

So golf has grown, but the question is do you support this point of view Links golf is not suitable for golf? No other region has be mention, certainly not by me.

Kalen

It’s not my statement or comment, nor is it misleading as suggested by Chris. It’s a clear comment made and further defined by said Member of GCA.com -  No editing just a statement, but then I suppose it’s all down to who asked the questions.

My thoughts, no I do not share that opinion, being a man of the links, it’s the true test of a golfer, all else falls into a poor also ran scenario, never quite offering the real thrill, challenge and enjoyment of what can be real raw golf at its very, very best. To think that a Member does not consider links are suitable for the purpose of golf just question the current teaching methods, because clearly IMHO they are not working.

But then what do I know -  my bloodline has only been playing the game of golf since the 1700’s.

Wondered if this would be brushed under the carpet or comments directed back to me, should have known.

Melvyn

[Jon Byron]

Links courses are a blessing and the R&A has done a spectacular job with the Open. 

[JESII]

Melvyn,

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

You act as though Tim does not have to right to an opinion. Is that how you feel?

We all know how you feel about links golf, and all other forms by comparison...a couple people might even care.

[Carl Johnson]

"The British Open is played [1] on courses that are unfamiliar to me and [2] in conditions that usually don't suit golf."

I am going to assume the writer is telling the truth regarding part [1] of his statement, so on that I would just take his word for it.

Part [2] is an opinion that, of course, he is entitled to, but that I believe to be silly.  (He is entitled to believe that my opinions are silly, too.)

[Jeff_Brauer]

Melvyn,

I recall my first trip to Scotland with ASGCA in 1980.  I loved it from the start.  I recall about my third hole in, I had 210 and was hitting an 8 iron, and aiming about 45 degrees left of the target when my playing partner questioned both the "underclubbing" and my angle.  I told him I thought I knew what I was doing and hit the shot near the green.  What fun, but many folks, including a few of the architects there, and many of my other friends who have gone, don't "get it" at all.

That said, all the original statement you question said was that the poster wasn't familiar with the Open courses personally, and as far as he could tell, the weather was often bad during the British Open.  Part one is simple fact, and part two is an opinion that a major championship and its contestants are better served with at least decent weather. 

At least that was how I took it, but he may have been talking only of the cold and wind, in which case, I join you in disagreeing.  I really don't have the facts at hand to see how many days the Open was cancelled or affected by rain.  Doesn't seem all that out of line to me.

[Tim Martin]

To take one sentence by one poster and then query the rest of the GCA population who by the way gushed about links golf and the Open Championship about the subject statement is an exercise in futility. I can`t imagine that Melvyn didn`t set the bait in his original post knowing just that. Just another opportunity to beat a dead horse. Hey Melvyn-HELLO-we get it.

[David_Tepper]

Talk about setting up straw men! Just another excuse to throw Mr. Spode in the briar patch again.

[Eric Smith]

The poster in question stated quite clearly at the beginning of his post:

As an American golf fan

He then goes on to write what Melvyn quotes in his OP. After which, the poster further elaborates:

I meant the British Open is played on links courses that require a ground game that most Americans don't play on their home courses. Also the weather is usually extremely windy and doesn't favor the high ball that most american golfers use in their everyday games.

I see no controversy in these statements. He was answering a question, 'which is your favorite major?'  He states he is unfamiliar with links golf and the courses of the Open Championship. He shared an opinion. To belittle him for his actions or others for their lack thereof in condemning him is IMO more egregious than any one man stating his opinion of televised links golf.

[Sven Nilsen]

On the original thread, the poster clarified his statement as follows:

"I meant the British Open is played on links courses that require a ground game that most Americans don't play on their home courses. Also the weather is usually extremely windy and doesn't favor the high ball that most american golfers use in their everyday games."

If you want to examine this viewpoint, do so with this clarification in mind.  Grandstanding based on an abstraction of a thought without including the entire dialogue is completely unfair.  To do so in a separate thread disregards the entirety of the conversation that took place, and smells of cherry-picking and laziness.  

[Edit: Posted before seeing the last four posts.  Would have just said "ditto" if I had.]

[Ronald Montesano]

I don't see how Melvyn's quote is taken out of context. The original quotee must know that even SATOC has contested opens in shitty weather, so the opinion about weather is inconsistent with a belief that TOC is a great host site.

We ARE talking about the British Open here, after all. I love the argument about it being The Open Championship. I'm sure that golfers in Kenya, Guatemala, Alaska, Poland, Singapore and New Zealand are thrilled to know that there is only one Open championship (are the rest closed or on siesta?)

The British Open is not the US Open, hipsters, so the Merions, the NGLAs, the Pebbly Beeches are not suitable hosts for it. Don't think Melvelous is bashing them in the least.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Melvyn, so many of your threads lose the essence of the topic because you tend to be so combative.  Your questions are more than queries, they include an indictment.
For instance the following from your first post:
Will walking soon be links to this way of thinking (links courses not suitable for The Open) or has it already affected the minds of players, hence No Walking courses.  Is there no cure for this invasive virus that is rendering commitment, skill and rising to the challenge redundant? Might as well just play golf games on the computer, saves the expensive procedure of designing, building and maintaining a golf course.

May I suggest a less pugnacious stance.  I think it would help us all stay on topic.

[Matthew Rose]

"in conditions that usually don't suit golf"

He obviously never tried to play in Wisconsin during March and April

[Melvyn Morrow]

I have no problems with players not keen on links courses, I have no problem with players playing the various variations of the game, I have no problem if there is a degree of misunderstanding or ignorance in how the game is played.

However, what I do find surprising is that any Member, whom I presume has lingered for some years on the cusp of this site can openly make a statement after so many great Feature Interviews, In My Opinions and this Discussion Group threads that a links course are not suitable for golf. Irrespective of his/her own experience there is enough post on this site and in the discussion group over the last ten years to show that links golf is very highly rated not to mention the birth place of the modern game.  It’s an indictment that as a site we have failed to embrace all the information relating to Golf and GCA, its show us in poor light that some considers Links golf unsuitable for the game. I would say it goes to the heart of GCA with bunkers and many hazards being predominantly links born.

The is a reflection that perhaps decisions are being made without people understand or perhaps fully armed with all the facts before deciding policy be it on any subject relating to GCA & Golf. Surely all decisions should be based upon a some comprehension of the facts relating closely to the game.

We each have a right to an opinion be it liked or not by others, yet should our opinions not show or at least have some understand or knowledge on the subject which is in fact at the heart of golf and also the history of GCA.

Again I am just asking a question.

Melvyn     

PS Eric I am belittling anyone, I am asking how many support his view point, is that belittling anyone? As for condemning him, where did that come from. As I said above this site has so many posts on GCA & Golf that ignorance should not be an excuse. If people just answered the question instead of reading other things into the question we might find out how many feel the comment has mileage and worth a debate with pros & cons.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Melvyn I love the way you stir the pot.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ed

No stirring required, I just have to sign my name and people are already putting words into my mouth. Let me burn for my errors not the thoughts or opinions of others.

Melvyn

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