[William_G]

Billy Payne April 2010

"He forgot that with fame and fortune come responsibility not invisibility,’ said Payne (below). ‘It is not simply the degree of his conduct that was so egregious but the fact that he disappointed all of us, and more importantly our kids and grandkids. Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children. Is there a way forward? I hope yes.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-1264349/US-MASTERS-2010-Tiger-Woods-slammed-Augusta-chief-Billy-Payne.html#ixzz1qFKagR00

[David_Tepper]

John Paul Newport's review of the book in the Wall Street Journal. He likes and recommends it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577305780231664746.html?KEYWORDS=%22hank+haney%22

"Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history, and glad for experience."

[Rick Shefchik]

John Paul Newport's review of the book in the Wall Street Journal. He likes and recommends it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577305780231664746.html?KEYWORDS=%22hank+haney%22

"Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history, and glad for experience."

"Eyewitness to history" is the key phrase here. I agree that it is distasteful to violate an implied agreement of confidentiality -- assuming such an agreement actually existed -- but a few decades from now, eyewitness details about the life of one of the greatest golfers of all time are going to be treasured by historians and anyone else who wants to know what makes high achievers tick.

Any worthwhile biography of an historical figure will cut close to the bone. There are a number of inside details in James Dodson's book about Ben Hogan that the subject would not have wanted printed during his lifetime. In the case of Hogan, I still don't feel we have an accurate fix on who he really was. I wish a few more of his friends and associates had been willing to write candidly about him while he was living.

I'm not saying the price of fame is to be ratted out by people you trust; but the price of great fame is certainly to be minutely examined. 

[Craig Sweet]

I was just listening to Haney on the Dan Patrick show....he said he had no NDA, though everyone else working for Tiger did. He was not sure why he was never asked to sign one. Also said of the Popsicle incident...Tiger gave him a look of "why do you even have to ask, just go get one"...Haney's said the point of the story was not about Tiger being cheap, but rather Tiger being self centered and pretty much oblivious to others around him socially.

And yeah, Haney was defending the book...he said this was interesting stuff and people want to hear it....whatever Hank.

[Ken Moum]

Many years ago, I wrote an article about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable.  

Every reviewer who has actually read the book says it is exactly what you describe, a laudatory tome with few salacious bits that explain the man's personality.

Hank, I think, has been torpedoed by his publisher.

Ken

[Jud_T]

Informal poll.  Which book would you choose to read on vacation, "The Big Miss" or"Moe & Me"?  I'll start with 1 vote for the latter, which I'm currently reading.

[Mark Pearce]

Jud,

I have ordered both.  There was a good piece by John Feinstein in one of the UK golf magazines recently about his encounters with Tiger.  I'm sure it will have been previously published in a US magazine.  Whilst it didn't describe someone I would like it certainly did paint the picture of Tiger in a better light than I had previously viewed him.  From all the reviews written by people who have read the book, rather than decry it unseen, I suspect that it what Haney's book will do, too.  I agree that his publisher and their PR machine may have gone about advertising the book in a way to make it sound worse than it is, in its portrayal of the man.  Frankly, there's only one way to know and that's to read it.

I have to say that I find myself surprised by how many people who's opinions I respect and value here have criticised Haney's ethics in writing the book.  That has made me reconsider my position, somewhat, but I still can't see this as the heinous moral crime some seem to think it is.  Each to their own, I suppose.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Enjoying it so far.

[Brad Wilbur]

I also heard Haney on the Dan Patrick show this am for a few minutes.  When asked about the title, he said that it referred to his tendency to hit a big hook off the tee at times. I believed that as much as when Tim Tebow yesterday said that he and Sanchez are "good friends and have a great relationship."

[Mark Pearce]

Enjoying it so far.

The book, the interviews or this thread?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Good one. The book.

I haven't read this thread because it's not necessary. Any time I see a thread go 7+ pages I take a second or two to figure out the argument based on the title. Saves a lot of time -- threads that go past 7-8 pages usually are boring, lowest-common denominator stuff and rarely have the remotest connection to golf architecture.

I haven't heard or seen any interviews although I did read Shack's excerpt about The Popsicle Incident. Hopefully people on here have enough of a life not to spend 7 pages arguing about public figures' right to Popsicle privacy. I'm not sure about that.

And I guess guilty as charged now that I've posted twice.  Time to bow out.

Carry on, Popsicle Privacy Advocates. Carry on, Popsicle Sunshine Lawyers.

[Rich Goodale]

Many years ago, I wrote an article about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable.  

Amen

[Jason Topp]

I'm looking forward to the book, mainly because I want to read a perspective on Tiger's game and personality that consists of neither banalaties nor speculation.

While I agree with many of the criticisms raised, Tiger's refusal to reveal anything interesting about himself is part of what creates the market for this book.

I'm not a fan of Hank Haney as an instructor but any consequences associated with writing this thing will come about.  It seems unlikely to me that he will attract more students as a result of the book.  He will have to decide whether the money was worth it.      

[George Pazin]

I'm looking forward to the book, mainly because I want to read a perspective on Tiger's game and personality that consists of neither banalaties nor speculation.

Seems like it would be a big miss on this count...

[David_Tepper]

Quote from: Terry Lavin on Yesterday at 11:10:30 AM
Many years ago, I wrote an article about my mentor, a man who molded me from a very raw state into the sort of person who could hold his own in a courtroom.  It was entitled, "His Trials, My Tribulations: The Life and Times of a First-Year Lawyer".  I had a crazy, difficult but memorable first year in the trenches.  My mentor was one of the most successful lawyers in America.  My dad drove a Coca-Cola truck.  I had a father/son relationship with both men, but unlike my dad, my mentor was nothing short of brutal in his methods.  I would often go home on the train wiping my eyes, remembering some of the day's withering "lessons".

When I wrote an article about his 50th anniversary in the legal profession, it was an instructive, but laudatory article, despite the fact that the man was far from perfect.  Why didn't I dwell on the negatives?  Because he was "somebody" who plucked me from obscurity and turned me into a potential success story.  I would likely have done just fine in my profession of law, but I never would have achieved the many honors that I ultimately earned were it not for his intervention in my professional life.

The same is true for Hank Haney.  The only reason he is not still living his life in obscurity is the fact that Tiger Woods picked him from the crew on the driving range and gave him the job of his life.  The fact that he is pissing on the man who allowed him to catch fire is quite simply unpardonable.  

Amen

Terry L. & Rich G. -

Sorry, but I don't think you can compare the nature of writing a tribute article celebrating the career of a mentor to this situation. Hank Haney was not a golf pro "living in obscurity" when Tiger decided to work with him. Haney was already working with a 2-time major winner and was ranked among the top-5 golf teachers at the time.

DT

[PCCraig]

Well, I just walked down to a brick & mortar Barnes & Noble to buy the book.

Only thing that's bizzare is that I had to pay the MSRP of $27 vs. B&N's online's price of $15. When I asked if they would honor the online price I got a long lecture as to how online doesn't have to pay "overhead," the "online segment is trying to put us out of business," etc... Whoops.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

John Paul Newport's review of the book in the Wall Street Journal. He likes and recommends it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577305780231664746.html?KEYWORDS=%22hank+haney%22

"Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history, and glad for experience."

Newport writes:

Is "The Big Miss," written without Woods's authorization, a violation? Yes, in that Woods, accustomed to absolute loyalty from his staff, clearly never expected all the things he revealed to Haney be made public. Rick Smith, another instructor who works with Tour pros, told ESPN he believes Haney broke the unwritten rules of player-coach relations. "For all the guys who have committed their lives to teaching, this should be very upsetting and I know that I'm not the only one that feels this way," Smith said.
 Whatever Haney's deepest motivations were for writing the book, it comes across as honest and sympathetic to its subject. Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history, and glad for the experience.

How can anyone recommend a book that essentially breaks such a trust? Newport's final sentence should have read "Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history as seen through a hole drilled in a locker room wall"


 

[David_Tepper]

Jim Kennedy -

Why should Hank Haney be obliged to live by what Rick Smith believes to be an "unwritten rule?"

Didn't Joe Torre write a book about his years managing the NY Yankees? Did he break any "unwritten rules" doing that?

DT

[Jim_Kennedy]

David,
I didn't mean to include you in my post, I was just going to borrow the quote and the link.

But in answer to your question - If I had a professional relationship with you that put me in a position to know personal elements of your life and then wrote a book about them I don't think you'd be very happy. Haney broke a trust. 

[David_Tepper]

Jim K. -

No problem about including me in your post.

It is curious why Tiger & his people never had Haney sign a non-disclosure agreement, especially as almost all of Tiger's people had to sign one.

You are right. If we had a professional relationship (without a non-disclosure agreement ) and you wrote a tell-all book about me, I would be upset about it. But that would be my problem. I don't see why that would necessarily make you a bad guy in the eyes of the general book-reading public.

Joe Torre was one of the most respected guys in baseball when he was a player and a manager. He wrote his tell-all book and then got a job working for Major League Baseball. Writing that book did not turn him into a pariah.

I find the concern over Haney's book, especially by those who have not read it, curious.

DT 

[Jim_Kennedy]

David,
Not necessarily a bad guy, just not trustworthy (but then again so was Tiger in other areas, perhaps they deserve each other.   ). I don't believe that Haney'll be having many conservations with his other students of note.

[George Pazin]

How can anyone recommend a book that essentially breaks such a trust? Newport's final sentence should have read "Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history as seen through a hole drilled in a locker room wall"

Would that it were that objective...

[Mark Pearce]

How can anyone recommend a book that essentially breaks such a trust? Newport's final sentence should have read "Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history as seen through a hole drilled in a locker room wall"

Would that it were that objective...

George,

Have you read the book to comment on its objectivity?  I accept that you can comment on the principle of Ganey writing the book at all without reading it and I respect your view on that, though don't agree with it.  But I don't see how you can comment on the objectivity of the book without actually reading it.

[Tim Martin]

John Paul Newport's review of the book in the Wall Street Journal. He likes and recommends it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577305780231664746.html?KEYWORDS=%22hank+haney%22

"Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history, and glad for experience."

"Eyewitness to history" is the key phrase here. I agree that it is distasteful to violate an implied agreement of confidentiality -- assuming such an agreement actually existed -- but a few decades from now, eyewitness details about the life of one of the greatest golfers of all time are going to be treasured by historians and anyone else who wants to know what makes high achievers tick.

Any worthwhile biography of an historical figure will cut close to the bone. There are a number of inside details in James Dodson's book about Ben Hogan that the subject would not have wanted printed during his lifetime. In the case of Hogan, I still don't feel we have an accurate fix on who he really was. I wish a few more of his friends and associates had been willing to write candidly about him while he was living.

I'm not saying the price of fame is to be ratted out by people you trust; but the price of great fame is certainly to be minutely examined. 

Hogan`s friends and associates loyalty say plenty about the man by not saying anything more. What else needs to be examined minutely? Can`t his legacy sustain itself with everything that is currently out there or is it of the utmost importance that we find out that he liked to read comic books in a nurses uniform?

[Rick Shefchik]

John Paul Newport's review of the book in the Wall Street Journal. He likes and recommends it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577305780231664746.html?KEYWORDS=%22hank+haney%22

"Golf fans will put the book down feeling as if they were an eyewitness to history, and glad for experience."

"Eyewitness to history" is the key phrase here. I agree that it is distasteful to violate an implied agreement of confidentiality -- assuming such an agreement actually existed -- but a few decades from now, eyewitness details about the life of one of the greatest golfers of all time are going to be treasured by historians and anyone else who wants to know what makes high achievers tick.

Any worthwhile biography of an historical figure will cut close to the bone. There are a number of inside details in James Dodson's book about Ben Hogan that the subject would not have wanted printed during his lifetime. In the case of Hogan, I still don't feel we have an accurate fix on who he really was. I wish a few more of his friends and associates had been willing to write candidly about him while he was living.

I'm not saying the price of fame is to be ratted out by people you trust; but the price of great fame is certainly to be minutely examined. 

Hogan`s friends and associates loyalty say plenty about the man by not saying anything more. What else needs to be examined minutely? Can`t his legacy sustain itself with everything that is currently out there or is it of the utmost importance that we find out that he liked to read comic books in a nurses uniform?

Tim, I doubt that anything like that lurks in Hogan's past, and that's not the kind of information I'm talking about. The Hogan riddle is very basic: the more you read about him, the fuzzier the picture of his personality becomes. The surface image is of a dour, uncommunicative man with blinders on for anything but golf. Yet there are stories about acts of kindness and a sense of humor. I think his compulsive privacy has left us with almost no idea of what kind of man he really was. As perhaps golf's greatest ball striker and most inspiring champion, it is simply natural that legions of golf fans as well as historians wish they could better understand him.

Yes, it's just sports, but there's a level of champion that becomes scrutinized the way presidents and prime ministers become scrutinized, and we don't seem to resent the personal aides who tell us behind-the-scenes anecdotes about other historical figures.

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