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Giles Payne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2012, 12:49:18 PM »
Sean

Absolutely fantastic collection of photos - it reminds me why so often simple is so pleasing on the eye.

Anthony Gray

Re: Bunkers
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2012, 01:00:37 PM »


  I think bunkers make great eye candy.

   Anthony


Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2012, 08:35:43 PM »
Sean,
 I think you should start a new thread called "Great Cool Features I (you) have seen"

For me, these features are what distinguishes a great property from an average one, and  in the hands of the right person(s) a great course from an average one or also ran.

This is the land's natural quirk and uniqueness.
@theflatsticker

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2012, 08:38:49 PM »
For me, these features are what distinguishes a great property from an average one, and  in the hands of the right person(s) a great course from an average one or also ran.

This is the land's natural quirk and uniqueness.


Yes, sir!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2012, 09:00:13 PM »
Sean,

What a fantastic post that was for #10.

I take back everything I said in the Bandon vs UK thread....where do I sign up to come over and play that kind of awesome stuff!!  :)

Kalen,
With Sean,
you could play 50 courses your friends had never heard of, and 20 you've never heard of, and the thought "second tier" would never enter your mind. (until you paid the greens fee ;D)

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2012, 02:34:08 AM »
Sean,
 I think you should start a new thread called "Great Cool Features I (you) have seen"

For me, these features are what distinguishes a great property from an average one, and  in the hands of the right person(s) a great course from an average one or also ran.

This is the land's natural quirk and uniqueness.


Brett

And I resisted using pics of Pennard and Perranporth!

The thing is, if the land doesn't afford cool features, why shouldn't the archie build them?  He is willing to build bunkers, why not diversify and be a bit creative?  This is where Strantz had it well over his competitors - bravery!  The Streamsong project has me very excited because it is my understanding Doak and C&C didn't mess too much with the unnatural shapes and features of an old quarry of some sort.  I know I have said many times I would like to see an archie dynamite the hell out of a flatish site then lay a course on it - well this seems like the next best thing.

Kalen

Cool golf is all over the place.  Did you see that thread on St Georges (NY?) - very cool stuff.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2012, 03:21:43 AM »
Sean,
I think many GCA's would have trouble replicating the hollows and some of those wild bumps AND make them look as though they were always there. I would guess it is 'easier' to build a bunker, than to build a craggy old hollow on the corner of a dogleg or to squeeze up a bottleneck.
Are we getting off Topice here Mac ?
If not - then I want to see more of Sean's pics - they remind of all the things right in this world of golf.

Bunkers are a hazard, water is a hazard, are these 'cool' features above actually hazards?
@theflatsticker

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2012, 04:30:31 AM »
Brett

Some of what I showed is totally man-made.  Sure, in nearly all cases time had a way of melding the features to the landscape, but I don't think it takes much time to do this.  In any case, I am not so bothered about features which blend with the terrain.  I am far more concerned with diverse features influencing play.  I used to be into naturalism and I still am, but that is now very much a secondary issue for me.  I can look at Raynor holes and see a completely constructed (and imo with little care to fitting into the landscape) set-up, but what I am looking for first is varied and compelling golf.  There is no question Raynor was able to deliver the goods even if he wasn't terribly artistic or daring.  He at least was smart enough to know that he didn't have to re-invent the wheel everytime out and to stick to what works.  I know, I am arguing for a guy who didn't really think outside the box (and I want archies to do just that), it is just a chance of history that his courses visually stand out compared to his contemporaries and even archies decades after his death.  The point is, his manufactured look has a beauty of its own for those interested in hitting shots.  I think the same holds true for using other forms of "hazards" instead of bunkers.  So to answer your question, by the rules, my suggestions are not hazards, but in the spirit and history of the game for sure my suggestions are very much hazards.  

Some features have been downplayed so long by archies that for many golfers they are now considered unfair.  Examples would include reverse camber doglegs, blind shots and retreating greens.  These are very basic tools of the trade which when not employed cause archies to seek out other ways to create interest and so often all they can come up with is sand or water.  As I said earlier, only Strantz really attacked the issue head on with any semblance of a nod to naturalism and his work is very polarizing.  So I am not suggesting that thinking outside the box is easy pickins for archies, but at the same time I expect at least some leading archies to lead the field of gca rather than build by conducting polls.  

Here is a cool set-up for the approach - stolen from another thread.  Imagine this hole with only the tree closets to the fairway - combined with the sloping green and hollows protecting the right - this is very interesting indeed. 


Ciao
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 04:58:25 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2012, 08:07:25 AM »
Are we getting off Topice here Mac ?

NO!!

I said in the opening post my friend thought bunkers were over-rated.  Now I see why.

 :)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2012, 11:13:15 AM »
At long last, a  Treedan!



Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Anthony Gray

Re: Bunkers
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2012, 11:26:59 AM »
At long last, a  Treedan!



Mike

  Now that is FUNNY!!


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2012, 11:53:02 AM »
Sean,

What a fantastic post that was for #10.

I take back everything I said in the Bandon vs UK thread....where do I sign up to come over and play that kind of awesome stuff!!  :)

Kalen,
With Sean,
you could play 50 courses your friends had never heard of, and 20 you've never heard of, and the thought "second tier" would never enter your mind. (until you paid the greens fee ;D)



Jeff,

After seeing those, I happily stick my tail between my legs and wimper off.

I've seen what I would consider quirk here in the states...but it doesn't seem to be the same kind of quirk you find on those UK courses.  I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just seems different....in a very good way!

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2012, 12:47:30 PM »
this is a bunker:



Funny, looks like GUR to me.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2012, 03:24:39 PM »
this is a bunker:



Funny, looks like GUR to me.

Yes, definite rabbit scrape I'd say ;D