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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2012, 12:12:08 PM »
Dunes yes, Trails no.  Trails is a solid Doak 8 in my book.  That ain't a secondary course in anybody's book and means there are only about 20 courses in the UK that are as good, and only a handful that are clearly superior...

One man's 8 is not another man's 8.  I reckon I have only seen four 8s (clearly top 100 world) and nothing higher than that which I guess is clearly top 25(?).  Trails must be very special indeed.   

I hope to make it to Bandon some day.  If I do make it, I will be very pleasantly surprised if the golf there is better than the top courses in England. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2012, 12:14:36 PM »
Dunes yes, Trails no.  Trails is a solid Doak 8 in my book.  That ain't a secondary course in anybody's book and means there are only about 20 courses in the UK that are as good, and only a handful that are clearly superior...

One man's 8 is not another man's 8.  I reckon I have only seen four 8s (clearly top 100 world) and nothing higher than that which I guess is clearly top 25(?).  Trails must be very special indeed.   

I hope to make it to Bandon some day.  If I do make it, I will be very pleasantly surprised if the golf there is better than the top courses in England. 

Ciao

Based on some of your threads, I'd be surprised as well.  England has a pretty deep bench, so to speak.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #77 on: March 19, 2012, 12:17:40 PM »
Interesting discussion from our own R. Goodale on Bandon and the "destination golf resort."

http://richmusings.blogspot.com/2011/03/destination-golf-resortheaven-or-hell.html

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #78 on: March 19, 2012, 12:19:52 PM »
This from a man who has TOC as an 8.  Is there such a thing as grade deflation?   ;D
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2012, 12:24:26 PM »


  THe seclusion of Bandon needs acknowleged. The 4 courses are also very different.

  Anthony


Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2012, 12:27:32 PM »


  Has anyone mentioned how romantic those cabins are at Bandon?

  Anthony

 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2012, 03:05:41 PM »
This from a man who has TOC as an 8.  Is there such a thing as grade deflation?   ;D

Jud

Golfers are ever the optimists when it comes to quality golf.  If I took seriously every 8-10 given on this site there would be 500 courses of that ilk.  I am a broken and jaded man when it comes to golf courses and personal/public PR.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2012, 03:33:16 PM »
Romantic cabins for lads golf trips? ~That's a wrong'un.
Cave Nil Vino

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #83 on: March 19, 2012, 03:45:17 PM »
Shut this one down, the conversation has irretrievably ventured into the absurd.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #84 on: March 19, 2012, 06:04:14 PM »
Hey All,

I really didn't intend to drop a bomb and leave....a few thoughts:

1)  The weather is indeed lousy.  My Scottish friends here in the states all say the same thing, but maybe their opinions are no good because they are deserters...  ;)

Kalen, the UK is more than just Scotland. It is interesting that you ignore the fact pointed out to you about drought conditions case of selective memory/reading. Of course we all know that the USA has no areas with any sort of bad weather.
2)  I heard being discussed time and time again that if you mix in "secondary" courses you get a better deal.  Well not to state the obvious, but of course this is true.  If I wanted to play secondary courses, I would not go to Bandon and just stay at home.  The whole point of a "trip" is to see the epic stuff, and there are no secondary courses at the resort.
No secondary courses. So what you might read into that is a lack of diversity ;D
3)  I did mention in my original post, that everyone seems to have left out....  "select courses" like TOC when it comes to green fees.  I do get that most golf is not that pricey...but what golf lover is going to go all the way to Scotland...which may well be their only trip over there and risk not seeing TOC?  That's my whole beef with the gouging visitors scheme that has quite frankly never set well with me.
You can get some excellent deals with multiple greenfees and accommodation and St.A is one of the more pricey destinations

In light of all that, I should clarify that I'd like to move over there one day once the kiddies are all grown and spend 2-3 years working/ living there.  Then I'd have a lot more time to take small trips and see at least most of what I'd like to see.  But in the meantime, given financial, family, and work constraints....I have plenty of destinations to see here in the US that I'll likely never get to, without worrying about trying to do a rush job to the UK for a week or two where I know I'll wish I had lot more time.

P.S.  See now I could have also pointed out that the food was bad in the UK too, but I decided not to go there.   Besides, it would probably be a nice diet plan for me to "opt out" of eating something like haggis or boiled liver for lunch.  ;)Hmmm, you get some really bad food in the states too but if you inform yourself about where to eat you will find some very good food at great prices.

P.P.S.  Just because the UKs currency is also down, doesn't make the misery any less for the US having a crappy value as well....just sayin!!!

Your own fault for not having the Euro ;D ;D ;D



Kalen,

maybe you should try something before you judge it eh. I have not played Bandon but will as soon a time and budget allow until then I will not judge it on the basis of other peoples opinion.

Anthony,

if you want remote try the Shetland Islands. Even Durness is pretty out of the way.

Jon

Jon

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2012, 06:19:20 AM »
Jon - nice little course at Durness with a stunning par 3.

Secondary courses is a bit of a misnomer as not everything can be first class. Some of our second level courses - West Sussex, Deal, Formby, Brancaster, Hollingwell, Brora just to name a few are stunning. It shows just how strong the top 20 nationally are.

This interesting topic takes us back to the age old debate, the reason why Bandon has so many fans is simple; stunning golf and access.
You simply cannot plan a Long Island, Chicago or San Fran trip and play the best courses. Fortunately we do not have that barrier.
Cave Nil Vino

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2012, 07:20:22 AM »
I enjoyed the Rihc article that David linked to. Not having been there I can't say to what extent he might be exaggerating for effect but what he says certainly matches my uninformed guess. Not many places better to spend a week in the company of a foursome of your golf buddies. Whether it's ideal traveling solo is a matter of taste and preferences but hard to imagine any group finding it less then perfect.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #87 on: March 20, 2012, 07:28:44 AM »
Yes Mark,

Durness is one of several good courses to play on a trip around the north coast. I suspect that many of our supposed 2nd tier courses are in reality top draw ones and as you rightly say it is a tribute to strength and depth of links courses in the UK. Bandon resort does seem to have the best links courses in the USA though what other true classic links courses do they have? I do hope to get there and experience it for myself but that will be a few years away. Till then I will have to put up with the likes of Royal Dornoch, Brora, Golspie, Tain, Castle Stuart, Nairn, Moray, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, TOC, Carnoustie,..... all within around 2 hours drive from my front door ;D ;D ;D ;D

Gloat over, back to laying sod on the new tees.

Jon
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 07:42:44 AM by Jon Wiggett »

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2012, 07:39:50 AM »
Jon,

At least a couple of the courses on Long Island are close enough to links for most people (not sure of the technicalities of "links" per se) and the quality is impeccable. If I had to name a USA course to play other than at Bandon I think Shinnecock Hills tops my wish list. The difference being, I could play Bandon any time I like and could play Brora, etc. any time I could arrange to cross the Atlantic. I may well never get an opportunity to play Shinnecock as it is private (American-private, not UK-private).

In my opinion there's basically no competition for Bandon Dunes whatsoever in the links (or links-like) golf among USA courses that anyone with a credit card can show up and play. As Mark says, that's the biggest difference. Access.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2012, 07:56:03 AM »


I could give you a list of 20 "secondary" courses that can hold their own with (or beat out) Dunes & Trails, but I'll leave that for later.

Big statement, Mr Whitaker - you're not getting away that easily. Out with 'em!!

Brian,

Don't be cheeky... you know more of them than me! Hell, you've played 20 of them, I would wager, just this past year! I'm looking forward to visiting a few "secondary" courses with you in August and few more in September.  ;D

Mike
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2012, 08:08:33 AM »


  For golf there is still no contest.

  Anthony


jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2012, 08:20:41 AM »
Brent,

When I'm planning trips now I always try to include a couple of "secondary" courses.

I'll hazard a guess that the round at Crowborough didn't feel like a "secondary" day of your trip to you and, similarly, in a week in which I played Alwoodley and played Dornoch and Brora twice each, easily as enjoyable and memorable were my rounds at Crail and Golspie.

Those simple, natural, lower-tier courses of GB&I are a drawcard in their own right if you're that way inclined.

Great post.
"Secondary" is such a bad word.
Almost all of my favorite courses in the UK/Ireland are lesser known gems,but not because of their quality.
Often it's about their proximity ,location, or pedigree, but USUALLY it's about a lack of (perceived) length.
Ironically, usually the visitor can chooses his tees at the lesser known courses, as opposed to playing the yellow forward tees at the well traveled venues, and ends up playing a LONGER course than available to play at a World Top 100.
These courses fly under the radar because they lack a pr machine,are remote, or are located in an area where there are too many choices.
They simply aren't played because everyboody is on a 6-10 course "trip of a lifetime" and driving right by some fantastic venues.
Which is a good thing for the rest of us. ;)
Nearly every trip I've planned, the favorite course has been a course no one in the group besides me had ever heard of going in.
and that's not counting the pre/post round pints with members who are thrilled you have taken an interest in the course they are so proud of.

As for the food, I haven't had a bad meal in the UK/ireland in the last 15 years, and I don't do a lot of planning, simply asking at the last club's bar, but I guess that's really not a huge priority for me ::) ::)

and anyone who thinks the courses across the pond "gouge" the visitors, should simply pick up the phone(as you can for any venue with planning in the UK/Ireland) and attempt to set up a Long Island tour during the high season. Gouging won't be the reaction, laughter/rejection will. ;D ;D

I set up a post BUDA round at two British Open sites including this year's with a simple email, one for a foursome at 8 am on a Saturday!
Try that at Shinny or NGLA in season.(or out of season)

I really can't relate to planning a 6 day trip to play/study one or two courses as a single::) ;)  (i mean can I press myself? ;D),
 but if I were advising them, I probably wouldn't send them to a busy resort (even if it has the best 4 course selection in the world).
Too many variables in pairings (for both the player, starter, and other groups)
But if going the resort route alone,
I'm thinking something slightly closer to home such as the two(now) great courses in Nova Scotia.
Two courses a few scenic hours apart seems perfect for study.

Bandon seems to be a must see for any golfer-it seems it should never be Bandon vs. the UK, but rather Bandon AND the UK ;D, and strategies to be sure to have enough time, money, and permission to do both as often as possible ;D :D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2012, 09:42:52 AM »


  Isn't Bandon on every golfers bucket list?

  Anthony


Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2012, 10:07:47 AM »
Anthony - Absolutely not, I cant get people to go there from the UK.  I have failed to convince people and fail because they cant use buggies, the cost, the 5 hour drive and 10 hours on a flight, the conversation quickly reverts back to South Carolina. The UK travel time thing v the way you merrycans think is very different, we seem to be very intolerant of being in a car for more than an hour, whilst you tend to be much more patient and I think going away for us is about warmth as well, so we have this 'go south syndrom'.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2012, 10:15:56 AM »
Adrian,

Living my entire life in South Carolina (except for two benighted years in the Northern Virginia suburbs) my golf travel follows the opposite principle. If an UK resident is going on vacation it needs to be somewhere warm with sunshine. When I travel it needs to be somewhere with cool season grasses. I have a hard time spending my limited time+money resources traveling any distance to play on Bermuda grass when I do that 100x a year at home. So I understand your how your compatriots are thinking.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2012, 11:19:03 AM »
I enjoyed the Rihc article that David linked to. Not having been there I can't say to what extent he might be exaggerating for effect but what he says certainly matches my uninformed guess. Not many places better to spend a week in the company of a foursome of your golf buddies. Whether it's ideal traveling solo is a matter of taste and preferences but hard to imagine any group finding it less then perfect.
Yes the article is a decent rendition of what a normal group experience might be, some great times with your golf buddies can be had...

However, there is more to the resort, how about the bunker bar, Sheep Ranch...

As for the raingear, you may play in rainpants all days with rain off and on, but you will always a nice tight lie on fescue year round

Traveling with just yourself or one person you may also see the below, as the group mentality usually precludes this type of inspired time @ Bandon.

Heck I even had some buddies pass-up a comped AM preview round at the Preserve and stay in their room.



« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 11:23:37 AM by William Grieve »
It's all about the golf!

Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2012, 11:26:32 AM »


  The made us walk a labyrinth at rehab.

  Anthony


William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2012, 12:45:31 PM »


  The made us walk a labyrinth at rehab.

  Anthony



more people should do rehab, it obviously worked for you
It's all about the golf!

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #98 on: March 20, 2012, 01:08:45 PM »

more people should do rehab, it obviously worked for you

Amen to that – now more importantly is there a rehab for the serious reoffenders who abuse their minds and bodies with minimal thought for the game of golf, you know the undesirables types who need their daily fix of riding and utilising distance aids. They are a menace to young and old, as well as families in trying to lead them into temptation.

So if known of any golfing rehab, please send details to clubs with more than half a dozen carts. As for the distance aid fraternity, you will see them standing together at a bar or seated in a restaurant totally silent waiting for a prompt to help them with their conversation. Alas there are some on GCA.com who are waiting for a prompt to post a topic, but without their toys they have not been able to kick start their minds. Makes one wonder how they decide to purchase the latest clubs to improve their score, who or what prompted them – or is it all part of a bad fix, or in Trumps case a bad hair day that makes players self-abuse themselves, can they even remember the reason or point of it all?

They must be the ones seeking office of some sort. I can now fully understand why Guy Fawkes decided to do what he tried to do, if these guys are indeed our political masters.

Melvyn

Anthony Gray

Re: Bandon vs. the UK
« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2012, 01:09:35 PM »


  The made us walk a labyrinth at rehab.

  Anthony



more people should do rehab, it obviously worked for you

 

  Seventeen weeks William


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