The skinny on Hollywood

[Wade Schueneman]

I noticed on the Golfweek top 100 thread that Hollywood (in NJ) made a strong entry into the classic courses list (landing at #75).  Over the years I have heard a couple of GCA regulars mention that it has a very strong set of greens, but that is about it.  I was hoping that a few of you that have played it might offer your opinions/observations (and perhaps post some pics).  I was thinking about trying to see it next September (although Plainfield and Somerset Hills are frontrunners at this point).  Thoughts (keeping in mind that I love fun courses with bold/uniqque greens).

[Bart Bradley]

Wade:

I haven't been there...but Ran was up there in the last year or two and updated his pictures and course profile.  Wow, amazingly bold features and lots of bunkers.   Check out his course profile in the courses by country.

Bart

[Alex Lagowitz]

I have played the course dozens of times and overall its a great track.
The most unique hole has to be the par 3 4th hole where the green is situated in between two artificial hillocks scattered with bunkers.
Another highlight is the "heinz 47" 12th hole.  A bottle hole, the nickname originates from the 47 bunkers that once dotted the hole.
The par 4 14th has a crazy bunker pattern off the left side of the fairway that features a volcano bunker.
Personally, I love the par 3 17th which has a wild green and a nasty back pin placement on top of a ridge.

The course has much much more than just a good set of greens and I would recommend playing it if you have the chance.

[Wade Schueneman]

Thank you both.  Nor to stray too far, but Forsgate and Essex County are also on the radar, so any input on those would be much appreciated as well.  So many courses to see, but so little time!

[Alex Lagowitz]

Being that Essex Cty is my home course, I'd hope to give you a good idea of what it is!
I'll try to be non-bias:
The first six holes can be bland at times; architecturally there are some neat features (sixth hole is great), but for the most part these holes lack the majesty of the remaining holes.

It all starts on the eden 11th which is a breathtaking shot over a deep ravine.  You walk across a high wooden bridge that spans the chasm, and the road hole template 12th plays back over the same feature.
The last 8 holes, heck the back nine in general, is as strong as it gets in terms of a good test of golf and a well layed track.

With recent tree removals, green expansions, bunker additions, and native grasses, Essex is really starting to mature into a fabulous course.
But I may be boasting too much, you have to make the call.
Overall, I think its a really nice course and it ranks up there with the hidden gems of the northeast.

As for Forsgate, the layout is certainly classic.
Steamshovel Banks lived up to his name there; the short course features massive bunkers (really the deepest I have seen in the Macdonald/raynor/banks portfolio) and huge perched greens.  As a student of architecture, I really enjoyed the template madness of Forsgate spanning from the eden, reverse redan, biarritz, knoll, hogback, long, punchbowl, narrow, and many more.
The short hole features one of the most pronounced horseshoe/"bathtub" indentations I have ever seen.
My analysis of this course is basically Banks on steroids.
The course is not maintained as good as Essex or Hollywood, but overall, the course is rooted in history and presents a challenging test at even a mere 6500 yards.

[Mike Sweeney]

Thank you both.  Nor to stray too far, but Forsgate and Essex County are also on the radar, so any input on those would be much appreciated as well.  So many courses to see, but so little time!

In the ten round challenge of life:

4 Hollywood
3 Essex
3 Forsgate

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46693.0.html

All three really are good, but the Travis greens and 2-3 very unique holes edge out Hollywood for me.

[Dan Herrmann]

Love the volcano bunker at Hollywood!

[Stuart Goldstein]

Love the course.  Have not played it in awhile and I understand some good work has been done.  The last tiime I played it was in the NJ State Amateur and the greens beat me up pretty good.

[Mike Hendren]

Run, don't walk to Forsgate.  Housing detracts early, but that's about the only criticism I can muster.   All the templates are there plus the world class par five 8th.  Biarittz is one of the few with the deflection mounds on the front tier.  Reverse redan is fully functional.  Vintage short with thumb-print.  Massive double-plateau.  Unique dogleg alps/punchbowl.  If it sounds like gushing, I am.  Has the comfortable feel of a gray collar club.  That plus the housing and second tier location are all that keeps it from Golfweek's Top 100 in my opinion.  Mucci will kill me but I'd go 7 Forsgate to 3 Mountain Ridge. 

Bogey

[Ron Csigo]

Run, don't walk to Forsgate.  Housing detracts early, but that's about the only criticism I can muster.   All the templates are there plus the world class par five 8th.  Biarittz is one of the few with the deflection mounds on the front tier.  Reverse redan is fully functional.  Vintage short with thumb-print.  Massive double-plateau.  Unique dogleg alps/punchbowl.  If it sounds like gushing, I am.  Has the comfortable feel of a gray collar club.  That plus the housing and second tier location are all that keeps it from Golfweek's Top 100 in my opinion.  Mucci will kill me but I'd go 7 Forsgate to 3 Mountain Ridge. 

Bogey

You had me at Run, Bogey!   It's on my Must See list this year.  Would like to see how Forsgate compares to Knoll CC.

Alex - With regard to ECCC, I think it's a very good golf course.  I played it for the first time last year.  The first six holes are a solid handshake at the beginning of the round followed by consecutive par 5s (both good) and a par 3.  The back nine is stellar.  And I agree, the 11th is a standout hole.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Doak makes reference to it in the Confidential Guide as one of the best par 3s in the world.  Overall, ECCC deserves its praise. 

[Mike Hendren]

Ron, hopefully Mr. Bahto will weigh in on Forsgate and Knoll West.  My sophomoric thoughts:

Forsgate is more dramatic given the rolling nature of the land, particularly around the property's periphery.  Perhaps this gave Banks more opportunity to cut and fill for bolder features.  For example, the deep bunker fronting the 18th at Knoll West is a recurring feature at Forsgate.

The aesthetics are better at Knoll West as the rest of the world is shut out.

Knoll West has some narrow playing corridors on the back nine due to massive oaks which frankly are needed for safety on some pretty tight holes.  

The redan at Knoll West doesn't function as well as Forsgate's reverse version and the front portion of the Biarritz is maintained as fairway, fwiw.

I played Knoll West after a downpour and it was pretty shaggy - perhaps it's normally maintained a little quicker.  The ball rolls well at Forsgate.

Knoll West is more muscular and more difficult (sneekily so) to score on - I found it a little tougher than it appears.  A better test of driving the ball.  On the other hand Forsgate is quirkier and negotiable for short hitters (I played with a couple of members in their early 70's who masterfully tacked their way round the deep greenside bunkering from which they likely could not escape).

I sense both clubs/courses have more than their share of characters. 

Out of 10 rounds, I'd play Forsgate 6 times.

Mike

[Ron Csigo]

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to provide the excellent feedback and comparison between Forsgate and Knoll West.

The greens at Knoll West are usually on the slow side.  I wish they would give them a bit more speed.  This would probably help the redan function better too.

Sorry, back to Hollywood...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

You're right !  Best to keep me away from sharp implements in your presence.

I love Forsgate, but you've reversed the play ratio.

The Knoll, Hollywood, Mountain Ridge, Essex County East, Forsgate and other local clubs have long flonw under the rating radar to those from outside the Northern NJ area.

Those of us fortunate to live nearby have known and enjoyed these special courses for decades

[Wade Schueneman]

Thank you all very much for you insights.  I think the take away seems to be that New Jersey is full of hidden gems and fully deserves an extended trip.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Run, don't walk to Forsgate.  Housing detracts early, but that's about the only criticism I can muster.   All the templates are there plus the world class par five 8th.  Biarittz is one of the few with the deflection mounds on the front tier.  Reverse redan is fully functional.  Vintage short with thumb-print.  Massive double-plateau.  Unique dogleg alps/punchbowl.  If it sounds like gushing, I am.  Has the comfortable feel of a gray collar club.  That plus the housing and second tier location are all that keeps it from Golfweek's Top 100 in my opinion.  Mucci will kill me but I'd go 7 Forsgate to 3 Mountain Ridge.  

Bogey

Mike,  

 Don't apologize for saying that.   I worked at Forsgate in 2001, before I really got architecture.  It's easy to get to, 20 minutes from my house.  Love to go back and see it now, that I can appreciate (meaning, overthink) the architecture.  Me, 5-5 Forsgate/Mountain Ridge, just because I drive 160 miles a day, and I'm tired at the end of the day.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Thank you all very much for you insights.  I think the take away seems to be that New Jersey is full of hidden gems and fully deserves an extended trip.

Wade,

  We have a wealth of good golf courses in this state; arguably, one could play 36 a day over a week's time in this state and still need more time to see another course or two.  There is so much good golf past the usual suspects. 

[Mike Hendren]

Patrick, never fear - I would rate Mountain Ridge slightly ahead of Forsgate using anyone's criteria.  It's just that we do have some solid Ross with driving distance from Nashvegas yet with the exception of Lookout Mountain we have nothing in the area from Messrs. Raynor and Banks.  Even there, the rocky geology at Lookout prohibited Banks from revving up the Steamshovel.  My 7-3 split is admittedly skewed for that reason. 

Given your obvious gravitas, please do not have me banned from New Jersey.

Bogey