[Ben Stephens]

For Colt's Muirfield the bunkers were a combination.  Some of the steeper bunkers were revetted but the shallower ones being much more sand faced and a thinner line of sod.  The 13th is Simpson's so that photo is his work  and I think the 18th too (he did repositioned them).

Colt's bunkers at Lytham and Hoylake were ragged and mostly sand faced, with big "Le Touquet" bents planted in the face.  I think he may well have taken that style to R County Down at the same time.  

Obviously R County Down kept this style. So it's maintainable and nobody could claim these bunkers are too easy.

Some of the Irish links have resisted the urge for high revetted face:  Portrush, R Dublin

Trevose was a long holdout with sand faced bunkers but they recently sodded the lot.

Paul,

RCD have incredible bunkers and they are shaped like a goldfish bowl with a smaller opening than a normal bunker.

Also I am Lytham so will be on the hunt for early images of the course and its bunkers in the clubhouse.

Cheers
Ben

[Jim_Kennedy]

Simon,

http://special.st-andrews.ac.uk/saspecial/

[Patrice Boissonnas]

I confirm that County Down bunkers with high grass surging from the faces play as hard as deep revetted bunkers. Maybe even more so since you don't suspect them to be so high. You can add the element of surprise : it took me several holes before I realized that grass acted as much as a wall as sods !

Portrush shows great examples of non revetted bunkers playing very deep. They are easily accessible for a raking machine but I don't know how much sand would blow out with strong winds. Probably not more than with revetted bunkers I guess? The only downside could be shapes that really are repetitive in Portrush. The bunkers there are truly efficient but not visually memorable.

I will join several pictures of Portrush and County Downas soon as I figure out how this works   !!

[Sean_A]

For Colt's Muirfield the bunkers were a combination.  Some of the steeper bunkers were revetted but the shallower ones being much more sand faced and a thinner line of sod.  The 13th is Simpson's so that photo is his work  and I think the 18th too (he did repositioned them).

Colt's bunkers at Lytham and Hoylake were ragged and mostly sand faced, with big "Le Touquet" bents planted in the face.  I think he may well have taken that style to R County Down at the same time.  

Obviously R County Down kept this style. So it's maintainable and nobody could claim these bunkers are too easy.

Some of the Irish links have resisted the urge for high revetted face:  Portrush, R Dublin

Trevose was a long holdout with sand faced bunkers but they recently sodded the lot.

Paul

Portrush may have resisted the urge to revet, but the bunkers are true pots with grass faces - not sand faces.  I think Prush's bunkers are very handsome - maybe the best I have seen in terms of aesthetics, but they can be called nothing but very clean looking.



The problem with RCD's bunkers is the hair.  It looks good, but I am not sure the hair provides a good hazard - it is just very thick rough afterall.  

Ciao

[Michael Whitaker]

Why are there so few courses with revetted bunkers in the States?

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

Portrush 11th still has sand faced bunkers and of course Big Bertha on the 17th.  Some on 18th too in the fairway?  

Sligo has some County Down style bunkers....

[Sean_A]

Sean

Portrush 11th still has sand faced bunkers and of course Big Bertha on the 17th.  Some on 18th too in the fairway?  

Sligo has some County Down style bunkers....

Yes, from memory #11 has half sand face with little roll-over grass.  Do you really think those look better than full grass face of revetted bunkers?  To me those look like they could be anywhere - not at all distinctive - which is why I like the grass face bunkers at RPr - they are a bit unsual and essentially perform the same function as revetted bunkers.

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

Third, as someone with a lot of experience building sand-faced bunkers in windy environments, I can tell you that it's very difficult to keep them where you want them.  The picture of Aberdovey looks great; and my crew have built some stuff that's beautiful, too.  But don't use a picture of a bunker that somebody just built.  Show me what it looks like after 2-3 years of weather, and ask them how it's working then.

Tom, which bunker at Pacific Dunes suffers most from loss of sand due to wind?   Perhaps the left side of #3 in the lay up area?

[Anthony Gray]

  I love the look of sod faced hazards.Just seems like links golf. Tennesse has some really cool bunkers.

  Anthony

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

I think they are not bad, good gathering bunkers.  Old pics are hard to find of Portrush, but I imagine Colt/Morrison's originals were mostly sand faced like this but ragged and more interesting shapes.

The grass faced ones yiou posted are similar to many at Muirfield.

I just don't want every links to be generic.  The links trust did a god awful job on the Old Course before the 2000 Open.  Staright stacked revetted and dead flat bunker bottoms.

[Paul_Turner]

I guess for the tour pros you have two options:

1)  Go really deep/steep and then you have to revet

2)  Don't maintain as much and have really gnarly stuff like at RCD.

[Rich Goodale]

Hi Frank

What exactly is/would be the purpose of changing revetted bunkers to sand faced ones (or vice versa), Colt or otherwise, Open venues or not?  Aesthetics? Playability? Maintainability? Homage?

Rich

[Frank Pont]

Hi Frank

What exactly is/would be the purpose of changing revetted bunkers to sand faced ones (or vice versa), Colt or otherwise, Open venues or not?  Aesthetics? Playability? Maintainability? Homage?

Rich

Rich,

I am just surprised that we take significant changes to a design of someone like Colt so lightly. Colt was very clear and consistent in what he wanted with his routings, greens and bunkers. With his bunkers it was sand faced bunkers, end of discussion. And funny enough clubs that are very proud to be associated with Colt's name do not think a second to change one of his key design elements.

The analogy is a bit like how Tom would feel if in 10-20 years all his bunkers at Pacific Dunes and Barnbougle Dunes would be neatly revetted pot bunkers?

Frank

[Niall C]

Very interesting discussion.

Frank - I wish inland courses in Scotland were going back to either sand faced or revetted bunkers because from what I can see the general movement at the moment seems to be towards grass faced bunkers. Aesthetically, playability wise, maintenance wise and most importantly for me visibility wise I really don't see the appeal of grass faced bunkers.

Revetting - I'm not a greenkeeper but I've got to think there must be some older UK greenkeepers shaking their heads at the idea that revetted bunkers generally need to be redone every 5 years. As I've stated often, I prefer the scruffy round the edges look but I can understand the R&A wanting to renew bunker faces for their big tournament but unfortunately its like the Augusta effect where every inland course seems to want to plant pretty flowering bushes in that other links courses decide that their bunker faces should be as prestine as the Open rota courses.

Frank - I came across a photo in one of the mags that Colt took and intended to use in his tour of the States to show how bunkers should be done. If I can find it I'll send it to you.

Niall

[Anthony Gray]

  They just on links courses period. When you come to Scotland they just add to the experience

[Tony Ristola]

Frank,

As you know, I'm more concerned about an inland Colt course which has started to contruct revetted bunkers!
Love the guy who has the job chasing the horse around with the scoop... collecting fertilizer. Passing it to the guys with the wheel barrows. A real factory they have going on there. 

In answer to the question, it's very difficult to imagine Muirfield, which is the Colt links course I know best, with sand faced bunkers.  It might look magnificent but part of me feels that the bunkers there have been revetted for so long that it wouldn't feel like Muirfield if they were sand faced.  Do you (or does anyone else) have any pictures of how these courses looked with sand faced bunkers?

The World Atlas of Golf (1976) has a photo of the crew building Muirfield and the bunkers are sand faced ringed with sod.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Here are some examples of Colt's bunkering style on the Coastguard holes at Rosapenna.

[MikeJones]

I have no problem with revetted sod faced bunkers, they increase strategy dramatically.

Given the windy conditions that the British links often endure, it would also make sense from a maintenance point of view as they would need less work than sand faced bunkers.
I have however seen revetted bunker faces constantly rebuilt for no good reason thought which irritates, I prefer the natural grassing over to occur and then rebuild when they are too far gone.

[Michael Whitaker]

Niall - did you find the photo of Colt's bunker example? If so, can you post it here.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Interestingly, I played golf today with an old friend who is a member of Royal Troon and Nairn and was until recently also a member of Royal Dornoch. He hates revetted bunkers and would welcome the re-introduction of sand-faced bunkers. He enjoyed our sand-faced bunkers at Wilmslow - well, he would, he hit a 110-yard shot out of one of our cross bunkers stone dead onto the 7th green!

[Ben Stephens]

Frank,

I was at Lytham yesterday and can confirm that the old photos in the clubhouse did have Colt Style bunkers in th 1920's / 1930's.

There is only one bunker out of the 206 that resembles a Colt bunker on the far right of the first set of cross bunkers on 18 - it looks un maintained these days.



There are two new bunkers added on the right hand side for the longer hitters in preparation of the Open this year



Any golfer that goes in a pot bunker at this year's Open will be severly punished - the winner will have the best course management plan/approach I believe.

Cheers
Ben

[Tony Ristola]

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/open-golf-championship-at-muirfield/query/golf
The Open, Muirfield 1935

[Philip Gawith]

Not strictly relevant to discussion on Colt, but I think things are changing at the Open courses when it comes to revetted bunkers. At Royal St Georges a decision has been made to allow more grass to grow on the faces of some bunkers and have less revetting. I think this flows partly from a study of how the bunkers looked historically, partly from cost factors and partly (I think) because of changing thinking in the corridors of power.

[Frank Pont]

Not strictly relevant to discussion on Colt, but I think things are changing at the Open courses when it comes to revetted bunkers. At Royal St Georges a decision has been made to allow more grass to grow on the faces of some bunkers and have less revetting. I think this flows partly from a study of how the bunkers looked historically, partly from cost factors and partly (I think) because of changing thinking in the corridors of power.

Philip, interestingly enough I got similar feedback the last months from influential people in the R&A and a few course managers from Open Courses that they really liked the Brittish Open Colt bunker article Paul and I wrote in GCA Magazine. Will be interesting to see how soon this translates into actual real visible changes....

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

There's a picture in Darwin's "Golfing By-paths" book which clearly shows sand-faced bunkers at Lytham. I'll try to post it this evening.

Ben:

There are also two bunkers on the 16th that are not revetted.



The one is to the right of the fairway and on a direct line to the green.



This one is dug into the mound that one faces on the tee shot.

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