Don,
My point was not in reference to DR, it was in relation to the site generally.
But when fair, genuine architectural questions are asked and the answer to those questions is this from Chris:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51411.msg1175709.html#msg1175709
Once we began to hear from folks who ... question if the designer designed it, my enthusiasm for the thread has diminished greatly. I like things positive.
then we have a problem.
Chris posted something that pretty well stated that Jack Nicklaus personally routed Dismal River.
I was very surprised that the routing, while edgy and controversial, was splendid reflecting "Jack unplugged"... The routing is epic and fair. If Tom Doak "perfected what is a routing" at Ballyneal, maybe Jack "reinvented what is a routing" at Dismal.
I asked a genuine question about whether he was saying that was fact, because I have read in a number of threads that Jack has never personally routed a golf course, so thought it would be interesting if we had confirmation through Chris that Nicklaus had routed DR himself.
Chris's response to that was to throw his toys out of the cot.
This isn't about Dismal River. This is about people who have little interest in architectural discussion and debate trying to paint as villains those of us who do for our temerity of wanting a discussion. I have happily participated in -- and even started -- threads about my own club/course's shortcomings, because I'm interested in the nitty-gritty (the nit-picking, in Aidan's words) of the subject and I'm not going to apologise for the fact that my genuine, uninterested curiousity about this topic offends Chris Johnston.
I understand that Dismal River is a great place to play and that the community there is fantastic. I have no doubt that is true. A good friend of mine is a member there and I'd love to visit with him. For the 201st time, I have no beef with Dismal River, its owner, its members or its designer.
And I know I am not the only one who gets frustrated when a fair question about the architecture or history of the DR golf course receives a reply about how great the cameraderie is at DR, how tasty the pork chops are or how lovely it is to sit around the firepit on a chilly evening.
As much as some people want to make this about "Dismal haters making trouble", that's not what's at play from me and I trust any intelligent observer can see this for what it is.
Thanks, Scott for the kind words. I believe I answered your inquiry last evening, clearly and to the best of my knowledge. You even thanked me. Blinded by ego or hatred, or simply lying in wait for something on which to pounce, here you are! You may not have noticed I freely and openly particpated in the discussion. I didn't have to, but the discourse would have been left to the blind, to those like you who have never been here.
He is the problem with YOU. YOU want to discuss that which you know nothing about. YOU want to debate? About what exactly? I can't describe my house or my town for you either. As Don mentioned, YOU haven't been to Dismal. As this is Lent, I will restrain my remarks, but I believe your "axe" has been very visible for all to see. You have accused, you use innuendo, you insult. That really is small and pitiful but bigotry is like that. Now I understand why you were banned from Max's lounge.
Let me ask YOU a question, Scott. As to the "ambush", do you know that Jack Nicklaus, one of the most respected men in the history of golf, didn't route Dismal River. "You claim "No beef with the designer"...then why even ask the question? To insult Jack? To bash the club? To insult me? I don't much care what you "heard". If you want the answer, call Jack. I told you what I knew. I hope every architect and member sees this crap. I don't think this site is about confrontation, but that is what you have done, and do here again. I recall Ran set out the rules for this site and you just crossed them, in spades.
Ever notice the same general crowd, including you, always shows up to cast doubt and denigrate a pretty cool place that you haven't even seen? All you have to do is look at the threads. Same people, every time. The "I heard it from someone else", or "I haven't been there, but", or "I rolled my eyes" does this site and your credibility no good service. Quite seriously, I have had enough of it and your insults.
I don't much care if you have a good friend as a member, but I'd bet you won't be after that post. With apologies to Ran and Ben and evreyone on this site, (counting to ten) nevermind, it isn't worth it.
To your last sentence...based upon the numerous messages I've received today, there must be a lot of (what did you call them) unitelligent observers around here. You just insulted them too. Well played.
I look for the good and the positive. Scott, sadly but once again, by you actions, you are neither.
If you would like answers, don't be a DICK. You aren't entitled to anything.
PS, the comraderie, the pork chop, and the firepit really are good and the club really is FUN!
Mac - don't bother. Scott won't be making it to Dismal River anytime soon.