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JNC Lyon

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2012, 06:40:53 PM »
I love how I've played a bunch of phenomenal public courses in PA, but none of them are on the Best-in-State list. Lederach? Morgan Hill? Jeffersonville? Paxon Hollow?  Cobb's Creek? Galen Hall? INNISCRONE?  C'MON MAN!
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SL_Solow

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2012, 06:43:37 PM »
I am a rater.  I don't, as a rule, disclose my views on where a course falls..  Suffice it to say that I believe Metedeconk is in the mix and that to include it is not a "mistake".   However I believe there are tiers among courses and that when you get beyond a certain critical mass, be it 50 or 75, there are numerous courses that can jump in or out depending on one's taste, or in the case of the system, who sees it and turns in ballots.
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John McCarthy

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2012, 07:26:16 PM »
What year is the cutoff between classic and modern?
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Mark Saltzman

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2012, 07:27:56 PM »
Quote from: John McCarthy on March 13, 2012, 07:26:16 PM
What year is the cutoff between classic and modern?

1960
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Tim Pitner

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2012, 02:26:03 PM »
An eclectic group for public/resort courses in Colorado:

1) Cougar Canyon GL, Trinidad (m)
2) Redlands Mesa, Grand Junction (m)
3) Commonground GC, Aurora (m)
4) Lakota Canyon, New Castle (m)
5) Red Sky (Fazio), Wolcott (m)
6) The Broadmoor (East), Colorado Springs (c)
7) Devil’s Thumb, Delta (m)
8) Raven GC at Three Peaks, Silverthorne (m)
9) Haymaker, Steamboat Springs (m)
10) The Golf Club at Bear Dance, Larkspur (m)

Nice to see CommonGround high up on the list. 

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Eric Smith

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2012, 03:45:26 PM »
Tennessee

1) Bear Trace (Cumberland Mountain), Crossville (m)

2) Gaylord Springs GL, Nashville (m)

3) Hermitage (President’s Reserve), Old Hickory (m)

4) Stonehenge, Fairfield Glade (m)

5) Mirimichi, Millington (m)



COURSES IN BOLD are here in my hometown! :)
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2012, 04:23:12 PM »
Any other tid-bits, gems, or interesting courses to bring to light in the state by state lists?
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Jud_T

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2012, 04:43:06 PM »
in Illinois, it's interesting that Highlands of Elgin made #2, but it's a travesty they don't have Shepherd's Crook in the top 15...
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Joe Stansell

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #58 on: March 14, 2012, 04:45:33 PM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on March 14, 2012, 04:23:12 PM
Any other tid-bits, gems, or interesting courses to bring to light in the state by state lists?

Salish Cliffs debuts as #4 in Washington State, behind Chambers Bay, Wine Valley, and Palouse Ridge but ahead of Gold Mountain. I guess I need to add it to my list of courses to play but I have a hard time conceiving of a reason to drive past Chambers Bay on my way there.
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Bill Seitz

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #59 on: March 14, 2012, 05:35:50 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 14, 2012, 04:43:06 PM
in Illinois, it's interesting that Highlands of Elgin made #2, but it's a travesty they don't have Shepherd's Crook in the top 15...

How many raters did we have for the 2010 outing at Highlands compared the 2011 outing at Shepherd's Crook?  The Crook gets some extra points for being close enough to Wisconsin to run across the border for some New Glarus. :)

Also, nice to see my new club move up to #23!
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Jim Franklin

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2012, 09:35:40 AM »
Rock Creek only #15 is still a travesty. Victoria National not in the top 20 is as well.
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Mr Hurricane

J_ Crisham

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2012, 09:53:49 AM »
Jim, 
       Is that a result of these courses being difficult to get to? Also, what other courses are in the area to draw raters ? My guess is that an area like Boston or Philly that has a high density of top shelf courses is a reason why less rater visits could be the issue.
                                                                                    Jack
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Mike Hendren

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2012, 10:23:10 AM »
Eric, that's a pretty weak line-up for the Volunteer State.  Not even worth debating.  Three questions:

1.  Nashville correspondent Tim Bert panned Miramichi (Bring it on down to Millington!).  Have you played it and your thoughts?

2.  Have you played Gatlinburg CC since they redid it and if so what's your take on the renovation?  I thought the original Langford layout would make the top five with its rolling front nine and quirky back nine.

3.  Is Player's Cobbly Knob still open?

Finally, Norman's course in Arrington is back on apparently as an investor group is re-starting the subdivision.  

Bogey
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George Freeman

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2012, 10:47:35 AM »
Quote from: Jim Franklin on March 15, 2012, 09:35:40 AM
Rock Creek only #15 is still a travesty. Victoria National not in the top 20 is as well.

Jim - Rock Creek is actyally #14  ;)

Being in the top 15 courses built since 1960 is a pretty lofty ranking if you ask me.  I need to get out there and see the place...
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Sean_A

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2012, 10:54:15 AM »
Quote from: JNC Lyon on March 13, 2012, 06:40:53 PM
I love how I've played a bunch of phenomenal public courses in PA, but none of them are on the Best-in-State list. Lederach? Morgan Hill? Jeffersonville? Paxon Hollow?  Cobb's Creek? Galen Hall? INNISCRONE?  C'MON MAN!

JNC

I agree, the PA list must be very strong to not include Lederach.  

I find it very odd that The Gailes and Belvedere are higher than UofM on the Michigan list.  I don't even think this is a good debate - UofM is comfortably better, but all are good.  Although, UofM is not a public or resort course, so I am not quite sure why its included.

Concerning The Gailes, it is great that a course of its era continues to impress.  A huge number of highly ranked courses from the same period shined brightly for a few years than dropped outta sight.  Hopefully, raters will get a grip on what they are doing rather than focusing on eye candy.

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 11:01:38 AM by Sean Arble »
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Brad Tufts

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2012, 11:06:11 AM »
I'm surprised at the lack of change.

Only 32 new courses to the list in the entire state-by-state section.

5 changes in the T100 Modern, 2 in the T100 Classic.

The Mass. public list is pretty decent, although I would put Granite Links at #10 (or off), put Pinehills Rees in the #7 spot, and put Pinehills Nicklaus in the #5 spot.  I'm also not a big Crumpin-Fox fan, but others are...I'm assuming Taconic is viewed as private so it's not on there.

Wahconah, the new Waubeeka, and Wachusett would be decent challengers to the 10 listed.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 11:33:45 AM by Brad Tufts »
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Craig Van Egmond

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »
In the Oklahoma state rankings, the gap between #1 Karsten Creek and the rest is HUGE!!  Of course so is the cost of playing.  :o

Numbers 2 - 5 are all interchangeable, you could make an argument for any of them to be better than the other.

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Jim Franklin

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2012, 11:57:44 AM »
Quote from: Jack Crisham on March 15, 2012, 09:53:49 AM
Jim, 
       Is that a result of these courses being difficult to get to? Also, what other courses are in the area to draw raters ? My guess is that an area like Boston or Philly that has a high density of top shelf courses is a reason why less rater visits could be the issue.
                                                                                    Jack

Could be, but we did a great trip to Idaho/Montana to play that I would do again in a heart beat. As for Indiana, there may not be much in southern Indiana, but what is there is worth a trip by itself.

And I am glad Rock Creek is #14, although it should still be higher.
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Mr Hurricane

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2012, 12:00:25 PM »
Jim...

Top 5?  Top 10?

Where do you think it deserves to be?  Or, another way, which courses ahead of it is it better than?
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Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Anthony Gray

Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2012, 12:00:51 PM »

  How many raters do they have per state?

  
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2012, 12:10:14 PM »
Quote from: Jim Franklin on March 15, 2012, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: Jack Crisham on March 15, 2012, 09:53:49 AM
Jim,  
       Is that a result of these courses being difficult to get to? Also, what other courses are in the area to draw raters ? My guess is that an area like Boston or Philly that has a high density of top shelf courses is a reason why less rater visits could be the issue.
                                                                                    Jack

Could be, but we did a great trip to Idaho/Montana to play that I would do again in a heart beat. As for Indiana, there may not be much in southern Indiana, but what is there is worth a trip by itself.

And I am glad Rock Creek is #14, although it should still be higher.

Jim,

And it could have been that much better if you had played Wine Valley as well!

I will also 2nd that RCCC is indeed the real deal...nothing short of fantastic.

P.S.  If there is a lack of GolfWeek raters in the PNW, I'll throw my name in the ring!  ;)
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2012, 06:53:04 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 14, 2012, 04:43:06 PM
in Illinois, it's interesting that Highlands of Elgin made #2, but it's a travesty they don't have Shepherd's Crook in the top 15...

Especially now that they took two trees down on 17. Wonder if it will at all change your thoughts on that hole.
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Jud_T

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2012, 07:00:18 PM »
Sven,  Didn't know that!  That's awesome. 
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2012, 07:17:01 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 15, 2012, 07:00:18 PM
Sven,  Didn't know that!  That's awesome.  

A little soggy today, but worth it for the weather.  

Really like the removal of the two trees (basically the two closest to the corner.  It opens up a line to the green from behind the 150 mark.

Looks like they also took one down to the right of the green, but don't think it was ever really in play (that being said, I'm sure I've hit it before).
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim Franklin

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2012
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2012, 11:15:31 AM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on March 15, 2012, 12:00:25 PM
Jim...

Top 5?  Top 10?

Where do you think it deserves to be?  Or, another way, which courses ahead of it is it better than?

Mac -

I would put Rock Creek squarely at #1 best new since 1960. It was that good when I was there. I have played Sand Hills close to 20 times and favor RCCC by a little. Pac Dunes would be a close third for me. As for VN, it is in my top 10 modern ahead of Straits, Bandon Dunes, Kinloch, Shadow Creek, The Golf Club to name a few off the top of my head.
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Mr Hurricane
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