[Tim Gavrich]

Great to see Shelter Harbor listed.  It's one of my favorites anywhere.

[Brad Klein]

We'll probably be posting "the next 100" Classic and Modern in about a month. I have been swamped lately.

[Anthony Gray]

  How many golf week raters are on the discussion group?

  Anthony

[Patrick_Mucci]

Howard,

Mountain Ridge continues to make improvements.

The tree management program has had dramatic results this fall/winter.

The course now has that "open Oakmont" look about it.

In addition, all of the bunkers have been redone and they're more dramatic, more visual and probably more penal at the fairway end.

The USGA Senior Amateur will be conducted at MRCC this fall, and perhaps I'll host another GCA.com get together after the Sr Am.

[Jud_T]

Butler +11
Long Cove +15
World Woods -14
Cuscowilla -10
Kapalua +14
Black Diamond -14
Black Rock -15
WeKoPa -12
Victoria -23

What changed?

[Dave Givnish]

Kapalua has Troon Golf managing the course

[Howard Riefs]

Howard,

Mountain Ridge continues to make improvements.

The tree management program has had dramatic results this fall/winter.

The course now has that "open Oakmont" look about it.

In addition, all of the bunkers have been redone and they're more dramatic, more visual and probably more penal at the fairway end.

The USGA Senior Amateur will be conducted at MRCC this fall, and perhaps I'll host another GCA.com get together after the Sr Am.

Pat -

Thanks for the insight about Mountain Ridge and its continued enhancements. Based on the previous photo tours going back a few years, it certainly looks like a gem of a Donald Ross course and in immaculate shape.

[George Freeman]

Butler +11
Long Cove +15
World Woods -14
Cuscowilla -10
Kapalua +14
Black Diamond -14
Black Rock -15
WeKoPa -12
Victoria -23

What changed?

Jud – I would guess nothing in particular has happened to any of these courses.  Could be that a number of panelists saw those courses for the first time and liked them either less or more than the average panelists before them.  Or the movement of other courses around those courses for the same reasons could cause movement.

[Jud_T]

Just seemed a bit surprising as there aren't many new courses, and these are established courses that saw significant movement, not new courses adjusting up or down...

[George Freeman]

Just seemed a bit surprising as there aren't many new courses, and these are established courses that saw significant movement, not new courses adjusting up or down...

It only takes a couple ratings to be way off the mean to make a big difference, especially if there aren't many ratings on the course to begin with.

[Garland Bayley]

When you have ratings like this
33. Double Eagle Golf Club

7.50

(34, p) Galena, Ohio

1991, Jay Morrish, Tom Weiskopf


34. Dallas National Golf Club

7.49

(25, p) Dallas

2003, Tom Fazio


35. Dunes Club

7.49

(24, p) New Buffalo, Mich.

1995, Dick Nugent


36. Bayonne Golf Club

7.48

(23, p) Bayonne, N.J.

2006, Eric Bergstol


37. Colorado Golf Club

7.48

(22, p) Parker, Colo.

2007, Bill Coore, Ben Crenshaw


38. Castle Pines Golf Club

7.47

(29, p) Castle Rock, Colo.

1981, Jack Nicklaus

All you have to do is have a rater come in with a score that will move the Castle Pines avg by .04 to jump ahead 6 places.

[Jud_T]

If 1 or 2 raters can move a course up or down 10-15 spots there's a problem with the methodology IMO..

[Mac Plumart]

If 1 or 2 raters can move a course up or down 10-15 spots there's a problem with the methodology IMO..

Where do you see that happening with the GW list?  What you describe is more applicaple to the way Golf Mag. does their list.

[Garland Bayley]

If 1 or 2 raters can move a course up or down 10-15 spots there's a problem with the methodology IMO..

Jud, I doubt there's a nickels worth off difference between the courses in the middle of the list. Probably 6 cents for those just outside 100.
Their number in the list means very little. If it were not possible to move up or down 10-15 spots there's a problem with the methodology IMO. This is not like grading math papers.

[Jud_T]

Mac,

I was just responding to George's statement.  How many ratings are necessary to make the list?  Do they throw any outliers out?

[Mac Plumart]

Stunning to me that Golfweek is the only one of The Big 3 to rank Rock Creek on their Top 100 lists.

I haven't played it but Kingsley stuns me as well, for the same reasons.





EDIT...I just saw Jud post.  I am not 100% sure on your questions, Jud.  I am not sure on the minimum.  And I don't think outliers are thrown away.

[Jim Colton]

Not much fanfare, but the Top 100's are up:

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/mar/13/2012-golfweeks-best-modern-courses/

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/mar/13/2012-golfweeks-best-classic-courses

[Jerry Kluger]

I don't understand Metedeconck suddenly appearing on the list.  Have they done any renovations or changes that suddenly bumped it up?

[George Freeman]

Mac,

I was just responding to George's statement.  How many ratings are necessary to make the list?  Do the throw any outliers out?

I believe the minimum number is 15 before it is eligible.  Not sure about the outlier question...

[Howard Riefs]

And, here's the state-by-state rankings for public and resort courses:

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/mar/12/golfweeks-best-courses-state-state/

Another ugly showing for Erin Hills: Still 5th in state behind Whistling Straits' Irish course.


For reference, the 2011 state rankings:  http://golfweek.com/news/2011/mar/10/golfweeks-best-courses-you-can-play/

[Mac Plumart]

Arrowhead Pointe making a big move in the GA state rankings!!  Good to see.

[Mac Plumart]

Not much fanfare, but the Top 100's are up:

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/mar/13/2012-golfweeks-best-modern-courses/

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/mar/13/2012-golfweeks-best-classic-courses

Sleepy Hollow...schwing!!

[SL_Solow]

In reponse to a question and without going to the merits of Metedeconk, which is a very good club with 3 excellent nines, when it first opened, the owner wanted a very difficult course.  Accordingly the fairways were relatively narrow and the rough was brutal.  Lost balls a few yards off the fairway were not unusual.  As a result, it obtained a reputation as being almost unplayable which hid its virtues.  Over a period of time since the members took over, the emphasis has changed.  Make no mistake, it remains a stern test out of the Trent Jones mold.  But it is far more playable.  I suspect it took  awhile for the old reputation to fade and for enough raters to come and see it.  Like every course, it has its flaws, For example, I find the finishing holes on the nines to be repetitive and less than inspired, but it is quite good and worthy of consideration.  As noted, the changes were not in design but rather in a change in maintenance which allowed the design strengths to be revealed.  As an aside, the place has a very good vibe and a magnificent practice facility but those are separate and apart from rating the golf course.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Congrats to Jeff Brauer. for a 1,2,3 finish in Kansas and a 1,2 finish in Minnesota on best public list

1) Firekeeper GC, Mayetta (m)*

2) Colbert Hills, Manhattan (m)

3) Sand Creek Station, Newton (m)


Minnesota

1) Wilderness at Fortune Bay, Tower (m)

2) Giants Ridge (Quarry), Biwabik (m)

[Jerry Kluger]

Shel: I read what you said about Metedeconck but I was unable to determine if it is a top 100 course in your opinion. 

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