[David Harshbarger]

Our 9 Hole course in upstate NY is getting ready for the season, and as a Semi-Private course we'd like to increase membership and get more daily fee rounds.

I recognize there's a sizable contingent out there who won't play a 9 hole course, "because" it's not 18 holes.  As we all learned in elementary school, "Because" is not an answer. 

1.) What is different about how golfers imagine the 18 hole experience versus the 9 hole experience that leads so many to exclude 9 holers from consideration?

2.) What promotions or positioning have you seen that have effectively addressed these biases, either in your own perceptions or in practice?

3.).  What types of golfers are open to playing 9-hole courses?

4.) As far as members go, are there membership benefits unique to 9-hole courses that anyone has seen as particularly attractive?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

[Tom_Doak]

David:

If I owned a nine-hole course, I would do a couple of things to make it more palatable for the people who wanted to play 18 holes:

1.  Encourage two tee times for people who want to play 18 holes,

2.  Play up the fact that it's a course interesting enough that you will want a second crack at each hole, and

3.  If practical, add some alternate tees so that the course is slightly different the second time around.

Nine holes might be the wave of the future.  Some of the courses that are going bankrupt should instead sell off nine holes for real estate and keep the other nine.  They probably have the right # of members for it to work perfectly.

[David Harshbarger]

Tom,

1.  We are currently tee-time-less.  I'm not sure if that's a net positive. For some I think it is turn-off because they don't have the certainty of access in a tight time window.  For others, it means there's always a tee-time available.  I've seen the latter angle pitched at a couple of clubs. The problem is, sometimes 20 people show up thinking there's a tee-time now.

2. The buckets of iced-beer are cheap enough and stay cold long enough to get that crowd to go around twice.  The course's main defenses are the greens. I'm sure we can think of a way to pitch that.  We are going to redo our website and I think a hole-by-hole highlighting the challenges is a must.  Have you ever seen promotions that make this case explicitly, like "beat your first nine score and get a free drink at the 19th hole?"

3. We have alternate tees.  Some make a difference, some don't make much.  My favorite makes a 170 yard par 3 a 210 yard 3 (4 for women).  High-handicappers like me don't see 210 yard par 3's too often.  It's a small footprint, and while there are open spots that would bring different angles into play, they often seem to bring tees and greens into play, too. Some day down the line maybe we can  get a professional in to advise on this.

Thanks for the suggestions, Dave

[Mike Nuzzo]

Dave
How big is your following? - e-mail, twitter, facebook.
Do you have access to local youth?
Do you have clinics?
Do you have ladies?
How many rounds does it sell now?
Cheers
Mike

[Adrian_Stiff]

David - I had a nine hole golf course and as soon as I could not buy more land to make it 18 I sold it. Commercially they are complete disaster. In commercial terms the worst 18 hole course is almost better than the best 9 holer. That aside your course is there now and 'commercial' is not really important although clearly you need to raise the profile, alternate tees perhaps even greens all add interest, you can do no more than just make it the best course you can, your best strength to play to will be the golfers nearest you, its hard to fight the 18 v 9 syndrone and in many ways its a hard question to answer the exact reason why having 18 holes are so important, the GCA crowd will definetly prefer 9 holes with intrest over 18 with lesser intrest, sadly your till wont reflect that.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Commercially they are complete disaster.

Adrian
All 9 holers are a disaster or yours was?
Was it any good?

It is impossible to fight the 18 vs. 9 if they want to play 18.
I'm dying to play 9 alone or with my daughter.
I live in friggen' Houston proper with no place to play besides walking off Memorial Park after 9.

Cheers

[jeffwarne]

David - I had a nine hole golf course and as soon as I could not buy more land to make it 18 I sold it. Commercially they are complete disaster. In commercial terms the worst 18 hole course is almost better than the best 9 holer. That aside your course is there now and 'commercial' is not really important although clearly you need to raise the profile, alternate tees perhaps even greens all add interest, you can do no more than just make it the best course you can, your best strength to play to will be the golfers nearest you, its hard to fight the 18 v 9 syndrone and in many ways its a hard question to answer the exact reason why having 18 holes are so important, the GCA crowd will definetly prefer 9 holes with intrest over 18 with lesser intrest, sadly your till wont reflect that.

Adrian,
You've lived it so I'm not doubting it, I'm jut fascinated by this.
I love playing 9 hole courses.
I'm not really a fan of the whole different tee thing, but occasionally that's cool too if well done.
Sometimes it's fun to have second chance at a hole and more importantly you're never too far from the bar.

two of the courses I play most often a 9 holers (same tees), and I always try to to incorporate several 9 holers into a trip abroad as 27 holes days are quite enjoyable.
Quite often, for the commercial reasons you cite above, good 9 holers are turned into mediocre 18 holers.

[David Harshbarger]

Dave
How big is your following? - e-mail, twitter, facebook. We've got 90 facebook friends, not sure on e-mail list ( a few hundred) or twitter.  However, those three and an updated website are the foundation of my recommendations for our advertising strategy.   Basically,  use all four for selling the course in general, and for promotional blasts and course updates, including "open tee time" blasts.
Do you have access to local youth? Home course for local high school.  One summer camp.  have you seen local youth programs/clinics work to bring in members, in particular?  The atmosphere is very family friendly.
Do you have clinics? Not so much.  Are these effective in generating repeat business?
Do you have ladies? There is a decent amount of mixed play and some ladies play.
How many rounds does it sell now?  I'm not sure.  Other than receipts, check in is informal.  With no tee times, and a well known cadre of members recording every round has not been a priority. Measures of growth now would be based on receipts.
Cheers
Mike

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mike & Jeff - Personally I quite like just 9 holes, the problem is (as so often on here) its a very minority opinion. The 9 holer I had was a very nice course par 34, quite pretty, a par 5 and three short holes. I wanted to extend it but the landowners each side wanted crazy money and made it unviable. The 'disaster' bit is just the way its so hard to turn a profit. You have the, cant buy half a tractor, cant buy half a greens mower, irrigation systems dont cost 50% etc etc, and yet you are fighting tough run costs against only being able to take half money. You potential clients who may play your course are always reduced since many want EIGHTEEN and not nine. Too many factors are against the 9 holer making money. If you have a range and a nice clubhouse scene, you can scrape by. The chap that bought the 9 holer from our company scrapes by, if it generates a good player it loses that good player to an 18 holer, 9 hole courses are feeders for others, you will get beginners learning the game and you will get people that live close, I am talking from a UK perspective, if you are a mid-wester and have no choices things may be different, but 'in the market place' you almost ertainly will experience similar problems.

[jeffwarne]

Mike & Jeff - Personally I quite like just 9 holes, the problem is (as so often on here) its a very minority opinion. The 9 holer I had was a very nice course par 34, quite pretty, a par 5 and three short holes. I wanted to extend it but the landowners each side wanted crazy money and made it unviable. The 'disaster' bit is just the way its so hard to turn a profit. You have the, cant buy half a tractor, cant buy half a greens mower, irrigation systems dont cost 50% etc etc, and yet you are fighting tough run costs against only being able to take half money. You potential clients who may play your course are always reduced since many want EIGHTEEN and not nine. Too many factors are against the 9 holer making money. If you have a range and a nice clubhouse scene, you can scrape by. The chap that bought the 9 holer from our company scrapes by, if it generates a good player it loses that good player to an 18 holer, 9 hole courses are feeders for others, you will get beginners learning the game and you will get people that live close, I am talking from a UK perspective, if you are a mid-wester and have no choices things may be different, but 'in the market place' you almost ertainly will experience similar problems.

No doubt, many of your fixed costs remain the same.
Clubhouse etc.
can't buy 1/2 a superintendant or pro either, so clearly any staff have to wear many hats.
So many people who don't play anymore could continue if they'd simply play 9 or 12 holes,and if they walked they'd get great exercise- it wouldn't take that much more time than their trip to the gym

[David Harshbarger]

David - I had a nine hole golf course and as soon as I could not buy more land to make it 18 I sold it. Commercially they are complete disaster. In commercial terms the worst 18 hole course is almost better than the best 9 holer. That aside your course is there now and 'commercial' is not really important although clearly you need to raise the profile, alternate tees perhaps even greens all add interest, you can do no more than just make it the best course you can, your best strength to play to will be the golfers nearest you, its hard to fight the 18 v 9 syndrone and in many ways its a hard question to answer the exact reason why having 18 holes are so important, the GCA crowd will definetly prefer 9 holes with intrest over 18 with lesser intrest, sadly your till wont reflect that.

Adrian, thank you.

We're fortunate that our super maintains the course well, and that 87 years in it still has interest to the area.  I can't see another 9 in the cards; the course fills a natural bowl next to a river.

I'm very interested in the 18 v 9 question and the underlying reasons it exists, as they will play to any recommendations I make. I have a few theories

Choice theory; people like more choices, 18 or 27 holes, even if they don't intend to play them all.
Fixed cost theory;  the fixed personal cost of a golf round, making the time, packing the car, driving to and from, warm ups, etc., isn't worth it unless there are 18 varied holes played.
Bigger is better theory: no explanation needed
Quality theory: 9 hole courses are just inferior, period

Most of the approaches around multiple tees and greens attack limitation 2, with some success.  I think with appropriate promotions this objection can be challenged for many.

On 4, about quality, we face the same challenges on quality all courses do, but worse.  The quality markers are against us: par, slope, rating, top lists, etc.  9 hose courses tend to fare poorly here on external quality markers.  Too bad there isn't a "Small Luxury 9-hole Courses of the World" association, or a Top 100 rating that could be used to drive interest.

[David Harshbarger]

Adrian and Mike,

With the beginners, have you seen 9-hole courses improve their standing with more programs geared toward beginners?  I'm thinking regularly scheduled clinics, far forward tees, that kind of thing, that really actively support the beginner, that show the course embracing beginners?

Thanks again everyone,

Dave

[Adrian_Stiff]

David - I would agree with your reasons why the 9 holer gets a bad rap. Very hard to get over them though, I think a good interesting web site that 'sells' the architecture will do nothing but help. Do you have a practice ground or range as well?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Jeff - You make a great point about excercise. A round of golf (18) can burn 1200 calories if you carry your clubs, the prolonged 4 hour excercise is perfect especially for over 40s. I think that the benifits for HEALTH by playing golf  is a direction we should all broadcasting. Golf is game, but its a sport we can all enjoy well into later life with benifits of keeping flexible, muscle improvement and keeping a good active mind by competing. Everything we tend to do commercially these days is fighting the bloody internet, fortunately playing golf and keeping fit is one thing that golf has in its favour.

David - I did not really promote the teaching too much at the 9 holer, but the chap that took over did.

[David Harshbarger]

Adrian,

We have an "area" where you can hit some balls, but no range per se.  I think adding that would be a plus on the membership side, as for more avid golfers, a big part of membership is having someplace to go to work on the game.

One person mentioned promoting the course as a good course for walking.  It is.  But, is that an effective line in the market?

Dave

[Carl Rogers]

In the hot summertime in the American South, the nine hole walking experience might find a nice fit with an older demographic.
The half the time of the nine hole game might fit in well with the obligations at home as well as a game after work.

I am intrigued by the concept of a nine hole course with big greens and 2 different colored flagsticks and 2 sets of very different tees that create 2 different nines, but I defer to those of you with operational experience.

[Greg Tallman]

Adrian,

We have an "area" where you can hit some balls, but no range per se.  I think adding that would be a plus on the membership side, as for more avid golfers, a big part of membership is having someplace to go to work on the game.

One person mentioned promoting the course as a good course for walking.  It is.  But, is that an effective line in the market?

Dave

1. Time - enjoy great golf while not interefering with family time (assumes the entire family does not play)
2. Kid Friendly - Short attention spans, great introduction to the game (long term clientele... kids become parents)
3. Health - Walking ONLY days and expand from there... walking only events (Sure this has some downside but need to build an identity)
4. Multi-generation golf - Like the kids gramps may only prefer nine holes - Start your area's first "Three Generations Cup" - good things will come of this
5. Quality Golf - assuming the course has architectural merit - select a cornerstone on which to build your case

[Adrian_Stiff]

Carl - I like the idea of the two different flags but I think it might be a minor opinion if that makes sense! It does not cost too much to do though although you really need larger greens with two differing sections I suppose. It would be easier to implement in a brand new 9 holer, perhaps more difficult in an established one, but it all creates INTEREST.

On A SEPERATE NOTE OF MARKETTING..... KIDS PLAY FREEIs a possible concept wherby you can use quiet times to get the young ones playing, let them play for zero if they are playing with an adult

[Jim_Kennedy]

David,
We don't worry about the player who thinks 9 isn't as good as 18, we tend to focus on what sets us (and many other 9 holers in country settings) apart - reasonable fees, easy access, fast play, a down-home, laid-back, no pressure, friendly atmosphere, w/pretty scenery and decent course conditons that reflect the setting, i.e., we aren't striving to be Augusta.

Your course sits in a great area, and I'd guess you offer all of the above, plus you're close to Saratoga and vacationland. You mentioned 'luxury golf', well, all of the above elements are what the members take for granted, but are 'luxuries' to the thousands of summer people who make their way to your area, as they do to ours.

Get yourselves known to those players, the ones who would rather spend a couple hours in the morning playing 'luxurious' golf because they have other pastimes on their agenda , like going to the racetrack.    

[Mark Johnson]

take a look at willow hill in northbrook, IL.    www.willowhillgolfcourse.com/


One of the best marketed pure regulartion 9 holes courses I have seen.   (pluis one where i held the course record for 90 minutes).

[David Harshbarger]

Carl, I too am intrigued by the double pinned greens, but our course has small greens as it is so I don't see that as a possibility.

Greg, I like all of those areas of emphasis, especially the "three generation cup." I wonder if that could be used to a bridge to some of the other 9 hole courses in our area as a 9-hole course only regional event.  There are a number of regional 9-holers, maybe an event like that could build up value for all of us.

Our architecture is 1920's with a number of flourishes from that era.  There's material to work with there.

Jim, I really hadn't factored in the track crowd in my thinking, but when you put it that way there's clearly a way to give them an option.  One idea I had was around linking the course to other local attractions, like a local creamery featured on a Bobby Flay Throwdown, particularly for vacationers. 

I also really like the focus on who we are, and not chasing people who won't look past the lack of number 10 to see who we are.  Your list of who we are is spot on. I also like your take on what we offer as being a luxury, by way of the lack of constraints experienced on many metro area courses.

speaking of the track, a search turned up a club sponsorship of a $3,000 trot at the local raceway in 1963.  Always something to consider....

Mark, that is a very well done website.  I'll pass it on to our folks as one to look at.  Nice skyline view....but our porch view is pretty nice, too :-)

Thanks, everyone.

[Mark Johnson]

I actually think there is a huge market for regulation 9 holes course (e.g. not pitch and putts)

Some things that I think can really differentiate.  (these are also all things which willow hill does very well.)

1) top-notch practice facilities -- can attract the occasional duffer plus the low handicapper who really wants to work on his game

2) wide array of tees which cater to the 40 handicaps and 4s.   (this is a mistake I think alot of courses make.)   Good golfers want affordable course where they can get on-course experience

3) clinics and leagues -- great ways to get ongoing revenue streams.

[Carson Pilcher]

Tom,

1.  We are currently tee-time-less.  I'm not sure if that's a net positive. For some I think it is turn-off because they don't have the certainty of access in a tight time window.  For others, it means there's always a tee-time available.  I've seen the latter angle pitched at a couple of clubs. The problem is, sometimes 20 people show up thinking there's a tee-time now.

2. The buckets of iced-beer are cheap enough and stay cold long enough to get that crowd to go around twice.  The course's main defenses are the greens. I'm sure we can think of a way to pitch that.  We are going to redo our website and I think a hole-by-hole highlighting the challenges is a must.  Have you ever seen promotions that make this case explicitly, like "beat your first nine score and get a free drink at the 19th hole?"

3. We have alternate tees.  Some make a difference, some don't make much.  My favorite makes a 170 yard par 3 a 210 yard 3 (4 for women).  High-handicappers like me don't see 210 yard par 3's too often.  It's a small footprint, and while there are open spots that would bring different angles into play, they often seem to bring tees and greens into play, too. Some day down the line maybe we can  get a professional in to advise on this.

Thanks for the suggestions, Dave

I am a member of a course in Atlanta that is only 9 holes.  We also have an 18-hole course in the suburbs as well.  Admittedly, I joined the club without ever playing the 9-hole course.  However, I have to admit, I have fallen in love with the "small" course.  There are couple of things that make it attractive to me.

1. They have two sets of tees for each 9.  It has slightly different angles and distances that really do make it different each pass.  Some tees require a draw, and the next time around it will call for a fade.  Also, some holes play as a par 4 then as a par 5.

2. They have the course manicured to perfection.  Zoysia fairways and Champions Bermuda greens.  Perfect lies and greens.

All of that said, I would have never really considered the club without the championship 18-hole course in the suburbs.  However, they have done everything to overcome the lack of a second nine.

[Ken Fry]

I spent a few years running a private nine hole course in SW Michigan.  Some points from my experience:

Our course was designed in the mid '60's.  Each hole has two different teeing areas and each green has double pin placements.  The course was designed to handle this set up.  Teeing areas vary the holes not only be distance but angles.  The greens are big enough to handle two pins.

As was mentioned earlier, nine holes doesn't mean most of the maintenance is half that of an 18 hole course.  You still need the full compliment of equipment.  Our course was laid out over about 90 acres.  That's a lot of maintained area (even if a portion is roughly maintained).

For a private club, the membership total needs to be enough to generate the needed revenue but never too much to overwhelm the facility.  We never had a problem with too much, always an issue with too few.

Like many private courses, outings became a needed source of revenue.  Obviously with only 9 holes, you shouldn't put more than 16 groups on the course.  That will make for a long round but also limits the outings you can host.  There aren't too many 64 player, fundraiser or special event groups out there.

"Limited to 9 holes" was always the roadblock I ran into when recruiting members.  Many felt they would get too bored playing the same 9 holes over and over.  I grew up playing a public 9 hole course.  I played more rounds at this club in four years than most of the membership combined.  Some stereotypes are hard to reason away with people.  It's like no one takes you seriously because you're viewed as only half a course.  It must be too short and boring.

Tom Doak mentioned earlier to have two tee times assigned for players so a spot with exist on the first tee when they make the turn.  This demonstrates two big problems.  Hopefully the timing works out (the players are neither too slow or two fast) and another tee time is taken by a "lower" rate for the second nine.  Nine hole courses just can't generate the revenue an 18 hole course does.

9 hole courses have their place in the game but will always have constraints (whether real or perceived) compared to 18 hole courses.

Ken

[Don Hyslop]

A good website with excellent photos or a heli-tour of the holes is important in today's world. You have to give the person a reason to come but once you get them there it all comes down to the quality of the golf experience from the clubhouse and pro shop to the course itself. I have played over ten 9 hole golf courses. Some I have loved and others I would not be interested in playing again. Word of mouth is hard to beat, treat the customer like a professional and you don't have to worry about gimmicks. There is one 9 hole course I would play any day of the week. It is a course designed by Stanley Thompson at Fundy National Park in New Brunswick, Canada. It is just a beautiful experience to play and you can't beat that.

http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/nb/fundy/activ/ete-summer/golf.aspx

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