What to do with this bunker..

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I was speaking with a family member of mine ,who is the super at at a small course just outside of Portland, about what renovation he was planning for their course. Apparently they have problems maintaing the face of this bunker because of erosion as all the water drains towards the pond. He mentioned that they were considering doing a sod face bunker on the bunker between the green and the water...I almost died when I heard that. This course was designed by William Bell, so any input would be appreciated. This is my first chance to be able to impart any GCA advice in a real life situation, so I'm excited for the challenge.

[Mac Plumart]

Well...here is a comment from a golf course architecture idiot.

Remove both of those bunkers and just let the natural grass grow out...make it a nasty natural hazard...or stop maintaining them and let nature grow them out.

(Probably a stupid idea.  But maybe the real architects can log in, tell me how stupid I am, then give us a good idea...so in the end my public humiliation could be worth it.)  

EDIT...I slightly amended my original post.

[JNC Lyon]

Well...here is a comment from a golf course architecture idiot.

Remove both of those bunkers and just let the natural grass grow out...make it a nasty natural hazard.

(Probably a stupid idea.  But maybe the real architects can log in, tell me how stupid I am, then give us a good idea...so in the end my public humiliation could be worth it.)   

I was going to say the same thing, but turn it all into short grass rather than long grass.  It looks like you could get some interesting short game shots around that green with short grass.

What does this hole look like from the air?

[Mike_Young]

Small course outside Portland....
Do nothing.  Just keep raking the sand back up for the next twenty years and keep taking in the money.  Most likely can't justify the cost to make it "better".  Water will always go downhill and so will sand.   

[Rory Connaughton]

Pourous asphalt liner as used at Philly Cricket

[Rick Shefchik]

What would be wrong with a grass-faced, flat bottom greenside bunker (the one on the right?) I'd take out the one in the middle.

[Greg Tallman]

What would be wrong with a grass-faced, flat bottom greenside bunker (the one on the right?) I'd take out the one in the middle.

Agreed and roll the green off down the slope a bit

[Morgan Clawson]

Take out the 2 bunkers on the left.  Given the angle of this photo, they seem to be mostly out of play anyway.

Take the money and time saved by the loss of those 2 and invest it in the upkeep on the bunker on the right.

[Jon Wiggett]

Fill in both and grass it.

[Bill_McBride]

It would be cool to raise the back of that bunker and route the drainage around it.  It would add some intrigue to the green since pins on the right side would be semi-blind.  

[Mike_Trenham]

Does Zoysia thrive in Portland?  My guess is no.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Well...here is a comment from a golf course architecture idiot.

Remove both of those bunkers and just let the natural grass grow out...make it a nasty natural hazard.

(Probably a stupid idea.  But maybe the real architects can log in, tell me how stupid I am, then give us a good idea...so in the end my public humiliation could be worth it.)   

I was going to say the same thing, but turn it all into short grass rather than long grass.  It looks like you could get some interesting short game shots around that green with short grass.

What does this hole look like from the air?

It is about a 35 foot drop from tee box to green, hole plays from 105 -130

[Randy Thompson]

I would try to protect and maintain the original design, if its a small club they probably dose not have the budget to hire a starving architect and to many in house projects end up worst than the original design. Soliciting redesign ideas on this site will also set up for failure imo. Stick to addressing the maintenance problem. The problem of erosion occurs when surface water reaches a certain velocity that becomes destructive. I have had excellent results by installing a drainage trench on top of the slope where the bunker begins, approximately five inches below the lip, the photo belows is a little deeper than we normally recommend. The water has more chance of infiltrating down and the drainage captures the water, thus disminishing the erosion and in most cases eliminating it completely.


If the sand is real fine you could have continued problems but if it is a sand that meets normal criteria for bunker construction you should have infiltration rates in the excess of six inches per hour and excellent results.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Emile,

I'd look into whether the surface water could be diverted around the bunker vis a vis grading between the green and bunker.

The creation of a raised collar between the green and bunker might diminish the amount of water flowing into the bunker, thereby reducing or  eliminating the washout problem.

They did this on the DA at Pine Valley many years ago with good results

[Mike Nuzzo]

Pourous asphalt liner as used at Philly Cricket

Rory
Your suggestion would probably work.
Do you think this course and Philly Cricket have the same annual maint and capital expenditure budgets?
Do you know how much the pourous asphalt costs?
They could probably get a new/used gator/vehicle/mower for the cost to fix the one bunker with your suggestion.
Or a below the surface aeration system that would work much better than that ugly fountain.


Emile
Those are some ugly bunkers.
Tell him to hire an architect - in the end it will save him $ long term.
Cheers

[Bill_McBride]

Emile,

I'd look into whether the surface water could be diverted around the bunker vis a vis grading between the green and bunker.

The creation of a raised collar between the green and bunker might diminish the amount of water flowing into the bunker, thereby reducing or  eliminating the washout problem.

They did this on the DA at Pine Valley many years ago with good results

Thank you for agreeing with my post #9. 

[Randy Thompson]

Pourous asphalt liner as used at Philly Cricket

Rory
Your suggestion would probably work.
Do you think this course and Philly Cricket have the same annual maint and capital expenditure budgets?
Do you know how much the pourous asphalt costs?
They could probably get a new/used gator/vehicle/mower for the cost to fix the one bunker with your suggestion.
Or a below the surface aeration system that would work much better than that ugly fountain.

Mike
Not familar with porrus asphalt or the associated cost, but by judging the size of the bunker and the slope, I would imagine, a small smile drain in the bunker or even outside the bunker to catch the water would be sufficinet and cheap. Were talking about a little hand labor, little corrugated pipe and a square yard of pea gravel and a little more 4 inch pipe to take the water to an area out of play. This method does work and the sand has a much longer life because it no longer gets contaminated with the natural fine particles of the bunker base,another problem that occurs once the sand erodes and leaves the base exposed.

[Greg Cameron]

I'm with Randy on this.Here in the Pacific Northwest it rains 6 months and washouts are regular occurrences.A 2 inch sock pipe hand dug into the bunker subgrade 8 inches below the lip tied into the existing drains should help.Possibly a very slight swail or raised edge could redirect most water away from the bunker.good luck...Greg

[Lester George]

Emile,

I have tried many products including several mentioned here.  Contact if you want to hear the best product for your application which hasn't been mentioned here yet.

Lester

[Pete_Pittock]

Emile
You could try Billy Bunker (trademark) on the 11th hole of Forest Hills, or go with what Bill McBride suggested in a lucid moment between gin rickeys.  I was a bit worried about him talking about prunes on the right side of the green and was wondering what licuor worked best with his daily intake thereof.

[archie_struthers]

   

Upgrade the drainage in bunkers as so wisely suggested above. The Philly Cricket deal with asphalt is mucho expensive !

[Don_Mahaffey]

Send someone out to rake the bunker after it rains. If you don't have someone, get rid of the bunkers. There is no magic in golf course management     

[Bill_McBride]

Emile
You could try Billy Bunker (trademark) on the 11th hole of Forest Hills, or go with what Bill McBride suggested in a lucid moment between gin rickeys.  I was a bit worried about him talking about prunes on the right side of the green and was wondering what licuor worked best with his daily intake thereof.

Auto-correct on the iPad can be a problem. 

I only drink Stoli so no gin rickeys.   

[Randy Thompson]

Send someone out to rake the bunker after it rains. If you don't have someone, get rid of the bunkers. There is no magic in golf course management     

Don is correct, there is no magic in golf course management but also there are a lot of practical, economical and common sence solutions out there, that are often overlooked by the industry!

[Tony Ristola]

Randy,

I recall Winged Foot did some bunker drainage work about 20-years ago under something called the Alonzi Method; the super at the time if I recall correctly. They cut drainage trenches into the face of the bunkers so the water had somewhere to move vertically after working through the sand.

The Pacific North West is a bugger with the amount of winter rainfall. I know of a course an east coast architect had done, with large amoeba shaped bunkers with local sand that has the percolation rate of concrete; they are a bitch to maintain during the monsoon season, and they simply let them go during those months, and have a local rule of lift clean place. When the washouts become too much, the crew heads out to shovel up sand.

Perhaps the solution is to do the same during the wet months?