Shore Gate (Fream and Dale; Ocean View, NJ): a photo tour (broken links fixed!)

[Joe Bausch]

Some will say I'll play anywhere and anything.  Maybe it is true. 

I again visited the Jersey shore this past Sunday to play Shore Gate (with John Shi$ and a colleague of mine), a course that may be as polarizing as anything I've ever played.  I've known a couple of people that call it their favorite course, and a couple of my golf architecture junkie friends think it could be a Doak zero.

I played SG when it first opened probably about 15 years ago.  I did not remember it vividly, so we visited it last Sunday on a sunny, sort of windy day with temps around 50°.  A foursome went off ahead of my group of three walkers, but the cart guys let us through on the 5th hole and we did not run into another group during our 4h 5m round. 

I have no gigantic issues with the routing.  It is easily walkable on the front nine (a bit of a double back to get to the par 3 8th tee), but the back nine has three holes (13-15) isolated across a bridge (I'm assuming an environmentally sensitive area) and two long walks result.

Here is the routing from a 2011 Google Earth aerial:



All those ponds are man-made I believe, as clicking back to the early 90's on Google Earth does not show any of them.

All photos are 'clickable' to a larger size.

#1.  A dogleg-left par 4 that the course web site says is downhill, but if it is it only slightly so.



Tee view:



From 75 yards out:



From the back of the green:



#2.  The first pond is on the scene on this dogleg-left par 4.



View from the tips:



From 75 yards out:



From the back of the green:



Many golf architecture fans will probably react strongly (if they haven't already from the first two holes!) to the 3rd at Shore Gate.

#3.  Slight dogleg-left par 4.



Tee view (sorry, operator error on this pic as it is out of focus):



From 75 yards out:



From the back of the green:



More tomorrow.

[Tim Martin]

I would go just for the barber poles. Nice!!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Joe,

I played SG about the same time that you did in the mid 90s. I have no recollection of the holes so thanks for posting the pics. My reaction to the course then was that it was a "one and done." Maybe I'll pay another visit if your  tour changes my mind.

[Carl Nichols]

What's the bunker maintenance budget??

[Mike Sweeney]

Playing one set up, so far I see:

#1 - 3 wood then precise wedge reminiscent of Merion #1 going the opposite way:

#2 - Cool risk reward off the tee, then a tough second in.

#3 - Another risk reward off the tee. Yes it is overbunkered on the outside of the dogleg, but how different is it from Merion #14 tee shot? Road at Merion = Lake at Shoregate.  Midiron to wedge with some room to bounce one in to the green!

3 doglegs left to start is not too friendly for a public course, but with my ball flight, I like it!

[Mark McKeever]

Joe,

In looking at a bunch of the pictures, it seems like some of the bunkering I remember has been removed.  It seems less overdone than I had remembered.  It's got a nice rustic look to it in the winter.

Mark

[Alex Miller]

Joe,

What'd you think of the greens? They look pretty neat in the pictures, particularly 2 and 3. Cool contours? How'd they roll?

[Sam Morrow]

Looks like an okay course so far, remind me of something I would see down here.

[Mike Nuzzo]

What's the bunker maintenance budget??

Not enough.

Joe,
Please stop this one... I want to stick forks in my eyes.
 

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

What'd you think of the greens? They look pretty neat in the pictures, particularly 2 and 3. Cool contours? How'd they roll?

The greens are the highlight for me Alex.  Many are quite big, with lots of ridges, rolls, etc to give many pin positions, some fun to get at.

And the greens rolled wonderful for late February.  Probably a pace slower or two than during the summer, but my threesome seemed to like the speed.  John?

[Joe Bausch]

I'm putting up the next three holes very quickly b/c of the interest of Mike and Mike (Nuzzo and Cirba).   

#4.  Shortish par 4.



Tee view:



Approach shot view:



From behind the green:



#5.  Par 3



Tee view:



Little bit of Redan-ish properties in this green, with the slope to the left to help get a ball into left pins.



#6.  Par 5.  I call it "amoeba par 5" b/c of the bunkers.



Tee view:



Second shot view:



There is lots of bunkering well short of the green, so you must play short of them, or play out longer right (fairly wide) or left (not wide).

View from the narrow landing area short and left of the green:



From over the green:



More later today.

[Mike Sweeney]

Joe,

Never noticed this while playing. With 4 and 5, the course is so far dominated by asking for the player to hit a draw both tee shots and into many greens.

The 6th hole probably has Mike trying to use his old password to get in here! It is "waaaaaay overdone partner" in Wardian terms. I like Old Home Week at da Shore. 

The good news, somewhere on #6, a fade must be the preferred shot for the first time that I can see.

That is a bad hole, point to Cirba!

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Never noticed this while playing. With 4 and 5, the course is so far dominated by asking for the player to hit a draw both tee shots and into many greens.

The 6th hole probably has Mike trying to use his old password to get in here! It is "waaaaaay overdone partner" in Wardian terms. I like Old Home Week at da Shore. 

The good news, somewhere on #6, a fade must be the preferred shot for the first time that I can see.

That is a bad hole, point to Cirba!

One of my students from last semester plays on the 'Nova golf team and just loves Shore Gate.  My guess is the preference for a draw at SG might be why he and I assume other really good players like the place so much.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Never noticed this while playing. With 4 and 5, the course is so far dominated by asking for the player to hit a draw both tee shots and into many greens.

The 6th hole probably has Mike trying to use his old password to get in here! It is "waaaaaay overdone partner" in Wardian terms. I like Old Home Week at da Shore. 

The good news, somewhere on #6, a fade must be the preferred shot for the first time that I can see.

That is a bad hole, point to Cirba!

Counter point from Cirba:

"Overnite Sunday I came down with a stomach bug.   Despite not eating anything in over 24 hours, my stomach has been queasy that entire time.   Thankfully, I haven't vomited yet, but after watching the first six holes posted have decided to purposefully limit my visual intake from any further Shore Gate holes.    Mike Sweeney can have Shore Gate...I'll take the comparative holes he described from Merion.  "

[Joe Bausch]

#7.  Sharp dogleg-right par 4.



Tee view:



Approach shot view:



From just short of the green:



From over the green:



#8.  Par 3.



Tee shot view, where the pin this day was hard to get at.  And it appears some bunkers are being allowed to grow over on this hole.



From a mound over the green:



Now for those of you that were fond of the par 5 6th, the amoeba-bunkered hole, this par 5 might also get you going. 

#9.  Par 5



Tee view:



My tee shot ended up a little left of ideal, IMO, although this line shortens the hole some.



Third shot view:



From short of the green:



From over the almost 50 yard deep green:

[John Shimony]

I played Shore Gate with Joe and his collegue when these photos were taken but unfortunately Joe's photo tour has come out when I am rather swamped at work.  I will comment more tonight and tomorrow but for now the greens were in great shape as was the overall course.  The place is clearly over-bunkered and by a quick count I was in at least 10 of them.  Mark, it does seem that there are old bunkers that they are allowing to grow over with grass.  More later.

[Joe Bausch]

More lurkers checking in.   

Hi Joe,
 
I read your notes and saw the pics you posted on Shoregate.
 
Played the course in the company of Bill Vostinak and Mike Cirba -- in fact, it was the afternoon round
of our 36-hole day -- we played Hidden Creek first.
 
Ron Fream the architect of Shoregate simply went overboard -- the course is akin to the being in Orlando and
having the desire to throw everything into the mixture is no reason why it has to be done.
 
The 3rd hole which you left off with is a classic example -- how many bunkers on the right side were really needed ?
 
The same be said of the mounding overkill which happens far too much at the Jersey Shore. Sad to say -- but if architects
simply left the land "as is" there would be little that would standout because the terrain, with very few exceptions, is so mundane.
 
The issue is to try to keep the course in some sort of alignment with the terrain -- if Fream followed a "less is more" approach-- the layouts would likely improve. What's also amazing is how poorly constructed many of the bunkers are. They have about an inch or less of sand in many spots because water drains so well as to cause the sand particles to flow away after heavy storms.
 
What's interesting is that the 4th shows what I say above in being a far better hole because of a less approach -- rather than adding so many other elements that add to the overkill reaction that many people have when playing there.
 
#5 is another example of the overkill -- look at the bunkers on the left side of the fairway -- stacked like pancakes at I-Hop.
 
Joe, I count myself as a really good player and I don't see the need for the overkill -- check out a place like Twisted Dune and you can see what Struthers did so well.
 
I would urge you to put on your radar screen Vineyard Golf at Renault. Would enjoy playing that course with you to show what can be done with a less is more approach.
 
One final thing -- check out the "blemishes" that appear to be fairway bunkers to the left of #7. They are hideous -- it shows me a desire to add "something" for the sake of "something." And be sure to check out the overt action of man's hands with the atomic reactor mounds around the long par-3 8th -- simplistic design would not mean e-z layout -- but more in tune with the terrain and setting. Give you something to ponder -- look at the pic where you show the green from the rear view back to the tee. It gives the clear idea of how bulldozers turned a natural hole into a rendition of the Beverly Hills plastic surgeon working on Joan Rivers for the nnnnnnnnth time. If the site remained more natural -- the contours of the green themselves would be more than suffcient.
 
The 9th is another example of adding more yardage and more bunkers -- I think the hole would be better at 550 yards -- with the H20 to the left now more in play -- the hideous bunkers that were created nearest to the tees are again a desire to throw everything into the picture.
 
Joe -- good stuff -- but if anyone really believes the course is good -- then their sample of Jersey golf courses is quite weak.
 
You can post my comments if you wish ...
 
thanks,
 
matt

[Mike Sweeney]

 
Joe -- good stuff -- but if anyone really believes the course is good -- then their sample of Jersey golf courses is quite weak.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/new_jersey

Pine Valley G.C. (pictured above), Pine Valley ★
2. Baltusrol G.C. (Lower), Springfield ★
3. Plainfield C.C., Plainfield ★
4. Baltusrol G.C. (Upper), Springfield
5. Galloway National G.C.,Galloway ★
6. Somerset Hills C.C., Bernardsville ★
7. Ridgewood C.C.(East/West), Paramus
8. Bayonne G.C., Bayonne
T9. Liberty National G.C., Jersey City
T9. The Ridge at Back Brook, Ringoes
11. Trump National G.C.Bedminster (Old), Bedminster
12. Hidden Creek G.C., Egg Harbor, Township
13. Trump National G.C. Bedminster (New), Bedminster
14. Mountain Ridge C.C., West Caldwell
15. Trump National G.C. Philadelphia, Pine Hill
16. Hamilton Farm G.C., Gladstone
17. Metedeconk National G.C. (1st/3rd), Jackson
18. Atlantic City C.C.,Northfield ♦
19. Hollywood G.C., Deal
20. Shore Gate G.C., Ocean View ♦

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/new_jersey#ixzz1niXyKdJP

Joe,

I haven's seen Matt go off on Golf Digest in some time now. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

#6.  Par 5.  I call it "amoeba par 5" b/c of the bunkers.

[Joe Bausch]

Well, the response is so overwhelmingly positive I want to ride the emotion and begin the back nine this evening.

#10.  Par 4



Tee view:



Approach shot view where that cross bunker well short of the green can obscure the look:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



#11.  Dogleg-left par 4.



Tee view:



Approach shot view:



From just over the green:



#12.  Par 4 with water in play off the tee to the right.



Tee view:



Approach shot view:



Little run off areas like this long and left of the green are scattered about at SG:



From the back of the green:



More tomorrow.  How many more lurkers will come out!   

[Joe Bausch]

After the 12th hole a decent walk over a bridge is needed to get to holes 13-15 (then a trip back over the same bridge past the 12th green to get to the 16th tee).

#13.  Par 5 (the No. 2 stroke hole).



Tee view:



From near the end of the fairway landing zone:



From short of the green:



From a mound over the green:



#14.  Par 3 (this green seems tiny compared to the rest on the course!).



Tee view:



From over the green:



#15.  Dogleg-right par 4.  As the hole diagram shows, there are two ponds in play.



But from the back tee, the further pond isn't really visible:



But it is detectable from the middle tee:



Approach shot view (the blue flag here to the left is difficult to see):



From over the green:



More this afternoon.

[Mike Sweeney]

More tomorrow.  How many more lurkers will come out!  

Joe

Managing this thread is harder than being the Executive Producer on The Sopranos Reunion show. How to weave in all the dead guys!!  

Let's give it a try.

Matty "Tap Dancing" Ward stated in an email to me last night in response to Shore Gate being included on their Top 20 NJ list:

"Frankly, Golf Digest is all wet. Shoregate would not be among my top 50 courses in all of NJ. It is hookey -- contrived with silly bunkers that were created from a designer's pad without really understanding that adding so much to the site is akin to the action director who erroneously concludes that if he adds more explosions to the movie that ipso facto the movie will be better.
 
Shoregate would have been served with a less is more approach. No need to have bunkers created like pin cushions scattered around in a haphazard manner -- there are good holes present -- I really like the 2nd -- but like a model who has natural looks -- there's little need for make-up overkill.
 
Twisted Dune is head and shoulders above Shoregate -- heck, you can add Vineyard Golf at Renault as another course that gets far too attention -- interesting -- that John Foley mentioned it. Ed Shearon doesn't get much attention as an architect but he did good work there and at another course closer to Phillie but on the Jersey side called RiverWinds.
 
Mike, if a top 25 Jersey course listing was really serious -- it would be lucky to have maybe one or two public courses amongst that total. Keep in mind, the fans of ACCC because Doak got involved there -- have to keep in mind that the genesis of that club was private for many, many years. Just because you slap a "public" label doesn't hide that fact.
 
The Digest state ratings are often wrong because they permit outsiders who only frequent the state in a very limited way have equal votes to those who play here frequently. I have always advocated that state ratings need to be more heavily weighted towards those who live there -- they see and play the aforementioned candidates far more and have better overall insights."

Mike "Cobbs Creeky" Cirba said on an old thread:

"Shore Gates" are being built all across the land, and I don't see the forces driving ultra-difficult, visually controversial and conversational courses diminishing anytime soon.  

Joe (Matt, Mike, Redanman)

So how is this different than Hidden Creek which Mike, Matt and Redanman played in the morning before Shore Gate? How different is Hidden Creek from Chechessee Creek, Old Sandwich, Dormie Club and Warren Course @ Notre Dame?

Shore Gates and Hidden Creeks were BOTH being built around the country. The fact that "Group Think" took over that day of the Hidden Creek vs Shore Gate and Hidden Creek was the victor should not eliminate people from seeing and trying Shore Gate.

For the record, I would probably prefer Hidden Creek 8-2 over Shore Gate in the 10 Round Test. Of course, I might have a tough time with playing 8 times at Hidden Creek these days!!

[John Shimony]

As visually assaulting as Shore Gate's mounds and bunkers are it does have some decent, playable holes such as the 1st, 2nd (despite the ridiculous mounding behind the hole, it's not really in play), 4th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, and 16th.  But a nice gentle dog leg to an interesting green that would be a nice hole elsewhere but is overbunkered at Shore Gate is not a good hole.  You cannot take the 20 bunkers out of the evaluation of your enjoyment of the hole.  

[Joe Bausch]

Here is a thread from years ago where Shore Gate and Hidden Creek and compared and contrasted by Mike Cirba:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,2078.0.html

[Joe Bausch]

After the 15th hole you, if a walker, have plenty of time to gather your thoughts as you hike to the 16th tee, which takes you across a bridge, back around the 12th green and around a pond. 

#16.  Par 5.



Tee view (no bunkers in sight!)



Right in the fairway is better here; if you are going to challenge it in two you'll have to negotiate a large tree short of the green:





Play out wide right for a short third shot in:



From left and long of the green:



#17.  Par 3, with a bit of a Biarritz inspiration.



Tee view:



From over the green:



#18.  Slight dogleg-right par 4.



Tee view:



Approach shot view:



From just short of the green:



From the back of the green:



That's it for Shore Gate.  Here is the photo album formatted wider:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/ShoreGate/index.html

All of you that liked it, don't forget to invite me along on your next visit to Ocean View, NJ!