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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
LINKS 100
« on: February 27, 2012, 07:29:45 AM »
I recently completed the very difficult task of ranking in 1-99 order the best courses I have played.  99 is a completely arbitrary number as I ranked every course I knew well enough (several I chose not rank as my memory of them is poor) that was listed by Links and added some of my own courses.  Other than virtually drawing names out of hat to tie break some courses I was surprised at the results.  Of course, any list like this has to be taken a bit lightly because additional plays can often alter one's perception of courses in terms of comparing and contrasting.  Anyway, for better or worse, this is what I came up with; First 10.

1 Merion (East)
2 Ballybunion (Old)
3 St. Andrews (Old)
4 St. Enodoc (Church)
5 Prestwick
6 Royal St. George's
7 Lahinch (Old)
8 Kiawah Island (Ocean Course)
9 North Berwick (West)
10 Rye (Old)

Second 10

11 Enniscrone
12 Royal County Down (Championship)
13 Royal Cinque Ports
14 St. George's Hill (Red & Blue)
15 Old Town Club
16 The Island
17 Royal Aberdeen (Balgownie)
18 Royal Dornoch (Championship)
19 Royal Portrush (Dunluce)
20 Formby

More later.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jim Colton

Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 08:29:52 AM »
Mac was willing to pay a pretty penny to see this list revealed, and you give it away freely! You should've shook him down.

I guess Mac and the rest of us have Tom Dunne (@linksonehundred) to thank for this.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 03:27:27 PM by Jim Colton »

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 09:33:05 AM »
Cool top 20, Sean. St. Enodoc at #4 pushes me one step closer to finally making that golf trip to Cornwall. You're certainly not alone...one well-known golf writer has St. E. #1 on his LINKS100 ballot!

Thanks for sharing this. My personal goal in this whole exercise is to stimulate conversation and show that there are so many different and interesting ways to think about this stuff. How did you come up with your list?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 10:04:25 AM »
The big surprise to me was Sean's (relatively) low ranking of Dornoch at #18.  I wish I were going there this summer.

North Berwick at #9, on the other hand, is no surprise at all, it's in my personal Top 10.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 11:15:24 AM »
Cool top 20, Sean. St. Enodoc at #4 pushes me one step closer to finally making that golf trip to Cornwall. You're certainly not alone...one well-known golf writer has St. E. #1 on his LINKS100 ballot!

Thanks for sharing this. My personal goal in this whole exercise is to stimulate conversation and show that there are so many different and interesting ways to think about this stuff. How did you come up with your list?


Tom

I used what comes naturally to me, grouping courses first.  Then I looked to boost courses which had original/unusual holes which worked well.  I tried to completely block out course reputations and of course my personal misgivings or conversely those courses which really strike a chord with me.  I also looked at, for lack of a better phrase, "the joy to be alive" factor.  Its really hard to be objective about these things because I know what floats my boat and what doesn't do much for me.  Plus, there is the factor of knowing some courses much better than others.  Finally, a huge percentage of the courses are very good to great - how does one separate them?  

Third 10

21 Swinley Forest
22 Portstewart
23 Muirfield
24 Royal Birkdale
25 Portmarnock (Old)
26 Sunningdale (New)
27 County Sligo
28 Woking
29 Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)
30 Royal Liverpool  

Fourth 10

31 Little Aston
32 Burnham & Berrow (Championship)
33 Royal West Norfolk
34 Cruden Bay
35 Royal Porthcawl
36 The Addington
37 Princes
38 The Alwoodley
39 Yeamans Hall
40 Pinehurst (No. 2)

I was very surprised how highly Muirfield and Hoylake finished as I don't have any particular fondness for either.  Hoylake impresses with its very good flat holes and Muirfield, despite it being an uninspiring course for me, is incredibly solid start to finish.  

I was also surprised to see how high Little Aston and Burnham finished.  Burnham is my go to compare course and when I look at it objectively, very courses are better.  Despite needing some bunker removal, Little Aston is incredibly cleverly bunkered and this gets huge points for me.  

I am also slightly surprised by Yeamans Hall, although I always thought this was the sort of course which may grow on me.  A cool routing with clever greens and excellent fairway bunkering are enough to make me respect it.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 11:43:39 AM »
Sean,

Thanks for posting.  At first blush I'm surprised to see the Island over Portmarnock, although I guess you've expressed this sentiment previously, and my guess is a visit to Pinehurst post renovation might be worthwhile...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 11:45:57 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 12:45:03 PM »
I used what comes naturally to me, grouping courses first.  Then I looked to boost courses which had original/unusual holes which worked well.  I tried to completely block out course reputations and of course my personal misgivings or conversely those courses which really strike a chord with me.  I also looked at, for lack of a better phrase, "the joy to be alive" factor.  Its really hard to be objective about these things because I know what floats my boat and what doesn't do much for me.  Plus, there is the factor of knowing some courses much better than others.  Finally, a huge percentage of the courses are very good to great - how does one separate them?  

...


I was very surprised how highly Muirfield and Hoylake finished as I don't have any particular fondness for either.  Hoylake impresses with its very good flat holes and Muirfield, despite it being an uninspiring course for me, is incredibly solid start to finish.  

I was also surprised to see how high Little Aston and Burnham finished.  Burnham is my go to compare course and when I look at it objectively, very courses are better.  Despite needing some bunker removal, Little Aston is incredibly cleverly bunkered and this gets huge points for me.  

I am also slightly surprised by Yeamans Hall, although I always thought this was the sort of course which may grow on me.  A cool routing with clever greens and excellent fairway bunkering are enough to make me respect it.

Ciao

Sean it sounds like you made a list and then moved courses up the list based on things like "originality" and "the joy to be alive".  Is that a fair statement or did you create categories and then assign scores to each category? 

It also sounds like in an effort to obtain "objectivity" you moved courses up the list if you had "personal misgivings" and conversely down the list if they "struck a chord".  This part seems counterintuitive when written out.  Why move a course up the list because you have "personal misgivings," essentially improving its standing for something negative, and then move a course down the list because it "strikes a chord" with you, essentially downgrading the courses for something you like.  Are your "personal misgivings" not indicative of something negative with the course or the environment and doesn't the fact that a course "strikes a chord" with you mean there is something special that can't quite be quantified?  Or were you misgivings something like loosing a lot of money in a match on Muirfield.

I ask because I recently ranked each course I have played according to the Golf Digest process of assigning scores to their predefined categories.  It was really enlightening to see the results.  It gave me a new understanding of why their rankings are the way they are.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 02:17:50 PM »
I used what comes naturally to me, grouping courses first.  Then I looked to boost courses which had original/unusual holes which worked well.  I tried to completely block out course reputations and of course my personal misgivings or conversely those courses which really strike a chord with me.  I also looked at, for lack of a better phrase, "the joy to be alive" factor.  Its really hard to be objective about these things because I know what floats my boat and what doesn't do much for me.  Plus, there is the factor of knowing some courses much better than others.  Finally, a huge percentage of the courses are very good to great - how does one separate them?  

...


I was very surprised how highly Muirfield and Hoylake finished as I don't have any particular fondness for either.  Hoylake impresses with its very good flat holes and Muirfield, despite it being an uninspiring course for me, is incredibly solid start to finish.  

I was also surprised to see how high Little Aston and Burnham finished.  Burnham is my go to compare course and when I look at it objectively, very courses are better.  Despite needing some bunker removal, Little Aston is incredibly cleverly bunkered and this gets huge points for me.  

I am also slightly surprised by Yeamans Hall, although I always thought this was the sort of course which may grow on me.  A cool routing with clever greens and excellent fairway bunkering are enough to make me respect it.

Ciao

Sean it sounds like you made a list and then moved courses up the list based on things like "originality" and "the joy to be alive".  Is that a fair statement or did you create categories and then assign scores to each category? 

It also sounds like in an effort to obtain "objectivity" you moved courses up the list if you had "personal misgivings" and conversely down the list if they "struck a chord".  This part seems counterintuitive when written out.  Why move a course up the list because you have "personal misgivings," essentially improving its standing for something negative, and then move a course down the list because it "strikes a chord" with you, essentially downgrading the courses for something you like.  Are your "personal misgivings" not indicative of something negative with the course or the environment and doesn't the fact that a course "strikes a chord" with you mean there is something special that can't quite be quantified?  Or were you misgivings something like loosing a lot of money in a match on Muirfield.

I ask because I recently ranked each course I have played according to the Golf Digest process of assigning scores to their predefined categories.  It was really enlightening to see the results.  It gave me a new understanding of why their rankings are the way they are.

Joe

No, I didn't use a set of criteria and then average the results.  I used grouping than broke courses down from there. 

By "striking a chord" I meant things like admiring shorter courses with sub-70 par, more easily sustainable courses etc.  Often times my misgivings about courses are due to their beefing up with bunkers and rough to maintain championship difficulty.  Because "championship" usually means less creative ways to challenge golfers, this isn't my sort of thing, but on the other hand I think its a good goal to appeal to all levels of players - which links basically do even at championship level.

Now it gets interesting!  Fifth 10

41 Kington
42 University of Michigan
43 Tobacco Road
44 Turnberry (Ailsa)
45 Carnoustie (Championship)
46 Castle Course
47 Royal Troon (Old)
48 Royal Lytham & St. Annes
49 Carne
50 Beau Desert

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 02:24:32 PM »
Michigan over Carnoustie?  I'm a fan, and I can't wait to see the course when Mike gets done restoring it, but that's a tad aggressive IMO...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 02:42:48 PM »
Jud

Funny you don't get upset about Troon or Lytham being left behind.

I think Carnoustie over-steps the bounds of penal golf.  I also think UofM is hugely under-rated.  

Sixth 10

51 Saunton (East)
52 Notts
53 Northamptonshire County
54 Bulls Bay
55 Pennard
56 Hunstanton
57 Huntercombe
58 New Zealand
59 Worplesdon
60 St. Andrews (New)

I was shocked to see how high Northamptonshire Co ended up being rated.  Perhaps owing to my love for courses draped over the land that it is a bit high.

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 06:18:29 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 02:46:15 PM »
Interesting to see your rankings at last Sean... And what a wonderful looking Top 10 with Kiawah Island the only surprise to me based on what I've read in to your tastes over the years....

I'm actually surprised to see Portmarnock get as high as it did... So I'll move swiftly on...

As much as I love Enniscrone, I'm still not sure I'd have it as high as 11... And to have it separated from Carne by 38 places seems harsh on the latter... They could easily be the other way around for some... Mind you, I know others share the same view as you regards Enniscrone (with Ian Andrew mentioning it could / should be World Top 100)...

Also really surprised to see you have Little Aston 19 places above Beau Desert given previous conversations... Although I remember your last visit to the former impressed you quite a bit...

And still no Pennard (though we have Porthcawl), Sunningdale Old or Ganton....

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 02:48:41 PM »
Very interesting Sean,
We have always had a difference of opinion over Birkdale and Woodhall Spa..which I rate significantly higher than you, but a great list og courses.
Your lists and opinions are always well thought out..which I know si something we all appreciate on thsi site..
thanks
mwp

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 03:39:45 PM »
Wow this is a surprise.

I am amazed that anyone can rank their favourite golf courses in this way.  The Richelin Scale I understood perfectly.

Links, Parkland, “Gravity Golf” all gets ordered.  Sean could you produce a list of your top 100 albums? I could never even rank such ostensibly similar pieces as e.g.

After the Goldrush
Late for the Sky
Tapestry
There goes Rhymin’ Simon

Today I’ll go alphabetically and tomorrow maybe according to the order I first heard them.  



...and then of course.

Pennard at 55!  What, are you Nuts or something?
 ;)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 03:41:27 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 03:41:44 PM »
Was value a factor?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 03:49:16 PM »
I could never even rank such ostensibly similar pieces as e.g.

Easy

1.  After the Goldrush

2. There goes Rhymin’ Simon

3. Tapestry

4. Late for the Sky

 ;D

Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 05:11:50 PM »
Jud

I think Carnoustie over-steps the bounds of penal golf.  I also think UofM is hugely under-rated. 

Sixth 10

51 Saunton (East)
52 Notts
53 Northamptonshire County
54 Bulls Bay
55 Pennard
56 Hunstanton
57 Huntercombe
58 New Zealand
59 Worplesdon
60 St. Andrews (New)

I was shocked to see how high Northamptonshire Co ended up being rated.  Perhaps owing to my love for courses draped over the land that it is a bit high.

Ciao

Saunton over Pennard?
egads man
just put Pennard in for The Ocean Course and we're good
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2012, 05:13:57 PM »
Scott

No, value, club & reputation are not included factors which is partly why this ranking is so hard.  Placing some courses I don't care at all about above ones I cherish seems wrong somehow, but thats the nature of trying to rank based "only" on quality.

Ally

While I may personally be a bit disappointed with Portmarnock in the main because few few risks were taken with the design, there can be little doubt the course is a very goodun'.  

Spangles

This isn't about ranking favourite courses - or at least that is my understanding of mag rankings.  I have long said I learn more about golfers when they talk about their favourites compared to their idea of best.

Jeff
On another day I could have Pennard over Saunton.  That sort of thing is my main beef about this sort of ranking.  I don't really believe the numbers are that accurate.  As I say, I am a grouper, like the fish.

Seventh 10

61 Southerndown
62 Wallasey
63 Camberley Heath
64 Brora
65 Silloth on Solway
66 Machrihanish
67 Tenby
68 Castletown
69 Aberdovey
70 Donegal

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 05:16:08 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 05:27:19 PM »
Sean,
If I'm understanding you, you'd rank Pennard behind a course you didn't like, because you felt the course you didn't like was better? ;) ???

BTW 50-70 on your list is a pretty good list of 20 courses
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 06:17:13 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 05:46:43 PM »
Mac was willing to pay a pretty penny to see this list revealed, and you give it away freely! You should've shook him down.

I guess Mac and the rest of us have Tom Dunne (@linksonehundred) to thank for this.

Best list since the Confidential Guide!!!

I am beyond stoked for my 2013 trip to St. Enodoc!!1
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 06:02:12 PM »
Love that you have Kington and the Univeristy of Michigan (WHERE?!!!!) ahead of Turnberry, no less! A contrarian to the core!

The fact that you have Tenby in the same category as Machrihanish and Silloth makes me very excited about my upcoming Wales trip.

Brian

Turnberry may be the single most over-rated course that obviously exists to please. 

Eighth 10

71 Gullane (No.1)
72 Lakewood Shores (Gailes)
73 Cavendish
74 Pine Needles
75 Rolling Green Golf Club
76 Sherwood Forest
77 Prestbury
78 Nairn
79 Dunbar
80 Saunton (West)

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2012, 06:32:59 PM »
51 Saunton (East)
52 Notts
53 Northamptonshire County
54 Bulls Bay
55 Pennard
56 Hunstanton
57 Huntercombe
58 New Zealand
59 Worplesdon
60 St. Andrews (New)

Ciao

Sean,

Usual caveats aside, its interesting to see your list, especially when we get to this point...

Courses, that I know, or had always assumed you loved such as Pennard, Huntercombe, New Zealand (and Beau Desert at 50) are only now making an appearance, when I would have put money on you placing them higher?

And 52 is a little late on the list for someone who was fishing for an invite the other day...  ;D

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2012, 07:05:00 PM »
Sean, keep in mind that when this activity is spread out across a broad population, forcing golfers to make difficult decisions like your Saunton < > Pennard is one way that LINKS can feel confident that it's getting valuable information. The good news is that you can edit your list as often as you like to reflect new insights on subsequent plays.   

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2012, 08:51:17 PM »
How many of these courses you have played that you can remember each hole ?

I am asking this question of myself for the first time I've played the course.

It is my way of asking your question for an answer.


Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2012, 12:12:01 AM »
So you're saying you think St Enodoc is the fourth best golf course you've ever played? Wow!

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LINKS 100
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 01:11:46 AM »
So you're saying you think St Enodoc is the fourth best golf course you've ever played? Wow!

It's REALLY good, Scott. There are a few funky holes, but for the most part it is something to behold.

This picture is the approach to the 1st green, a par 5.

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

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