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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 02:25:14 PM »
I agree that haucking up a loogey of phlegm and depositing it on a green is inexcusable.  Sergio's little temper tantrum a few years ago where he deposited a really gooey one in the cup in disgust, should have been a big fine (I think it was).  But, one can slip over to the rough or green surround off the putting surface and relatively inconspicuously deposit the expectorate in the turf, where crowd don't sit or aren't allowed.  I don't know if the caddie would love it if you placed it in the wipe towel.   ::)   I'd be fine with a rule of a fine going to charity for spitting phlegm on the putting surface.

The ancient Greeks had a notion held well into modern times about the 4 humors (one of which is the spectrum of phlegm-mucus) being in balance for good health.  From Wikipedia excert:


Quote
Phlegm and humourism
 
Humourism is an ancient theory that the human body is filled with four basic substances, called the four humours, which are held in balance when a person is healthy. It is closely related to the ancient theory of the four elements and states that all diseases and disabilities result from an excess or deficit in black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood. Hippocrates, an ancient Greek medical doctor, is credited for this theory, about 400 BC. It influenced medical thinking for more than 2,000 years, until finally discredited in the 1800s.
 
Phlegm was thought to be associated with apathetic behaviour; this old belief is preserved in the word "phlegmatic".

But certainly Sir Boab being quite the wordsmith, is well aware of that last bit....whilst I learnt something new today...  ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 02:31:35 PM »
I find the slow play on the PGA Tour in general to be bad for the game. it creates a belief by many golfers that is the way to play the game. I watch so many college players now going through almost comical routines and prep, reprep and reprep again. Keegan and Padric Harrington are just a few of the slow play pros. I think it should be a 4 hour round and put the clock on them. I frankly cannot watch it live.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 02:39:59 PM »
Would it be safe to say that slow play habits are largely coming from golf academy or golf camps where young promising players attend in their early teens? 

A couple of years ago, we had a Women's Am open and then after they were through, they allowed the public to fall in behind them.  We (a 4some of old coots) were first one's off, after they allowed the last group in the toon-a-mint to get clear ahead by about 3-4 holes.  We caught them when they were on 2nd shots on par 5 10th and we were putting out on 9.  Then, I was able to see their putting routines, and we were all so exasperated and frustrated at watching these college player ladies, torturously look and plumb-bob their puts from every conceivable direction, and mark and replace and remark to get their cheater line so perfect.  I suspect all of those 18-20somethings in that last Am group were golf academy schooled. 

But, I didn't see any of them haucking up loogeys, the little darlings...  ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 02:49:29 PM »
Kalen it’s at the end of paragraph 3 of the article I linked.  I made a direct quote for you in brackets.   You see what you want to see.

Sitting let me be clear is projecting fluid form your body why compare it to sharing a cup?

If Wiki won’t do how about The world Health Organisation. Paragraph two.

http://www.emro.who.int/stb/Facts-AboutTB.htm 





For those of you who can’t bring yourselves to condemn an action that spreads disease, why do you want to promote it as being acceptable at best?  What right are we abusing when (as happens in some countries) it’s banned. Fine by me if you do it in your own home but not in public please.
Let's make GCA grate again!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 03:12:21 PM »
Tony, not to engage in a debate with you on something you apparently feel quite strongly about, for purpose of upsetting you... I just wonder if the practice of spitting on turf, or other athletic fields or pitches, why haven't we heard of any athletes contracting respiratory diseases that might be obviously corresponding to sputum, mucus, phlegm exposure? 

In fact, there are far more obvious and present dangers in soil born bacterial disease that are naturally occurring in certain soils, than microbial and bacterial residue of spit, in my humble estimation based on NO scientific data or knowledge.  But, anecdotally speaking, my wife got exposed to 'Valley Fever" ( a soil born infection that greatly mimics TB causing legion in the lungs - treated with anti-biotics) that could have only been contracted one day when we spent a great deal of time tooling around Rustic Canyon during construction where sand and dust was kicked up quite a great deal. Valley fever is only found in U.S. in SoCal ag valleys and AZ.  Blastomycosis and other soil born diseases are a factor where I live, which occur along swampy or low riverside mucky soils and hikers and stream fisherman have a factor of risk.

But, have you or anyone else ever heard of any disease contracted by an athlete, most particularly a golfer, attributed to spitting?  I haven't even heard of a boxer getting a specific respiratory disease like TB or other related, from all the sputum they spray on eachother in a match, have you?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2012, 03:27:21 PM »
Last year at The Masters, the Augusta National overlords notified Rickie Fowler that wearing his hat backwards is not condoned.

Look forward to Keegan receiving similar direction about spitting after his first practice round.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2012, 03:37:32 PM »
Howard, I seem to have it in my memory banks that Tiger has deposited some rather viscous expectorates around that hallowed ground.  Would that be a haughty double standard, if true?  But, as young Keegan has already acknowledged, he'll try to curtail it.  Let's see how that goes...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2012, 04:11:51 PM »
I didn't see either of them spitting but I followed a bit of the Senden-Day match on the front nine yesterday and those two are painfully slow. Partly because they were both playing rather poorly, but they were a full three holes behind the match in front of them!

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2012, 04:18:27 PM »
Howard, I seem to have it in my memory banks that Tiger has deposited some rather viscous expectorates around that hallowed ground.  Would that be a haughty double standard, if true?  But, as young Keegan has already acknowledged, he'll try to curtail it.  Let's see how that goes...

Good memory. Tiger let one go as recent as last year at Augusta.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-10/sports/29420343_1_tiger-woods-japan-s-hideki-matsuyama-poor-judgment

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2012, 04:42:20 PM »
I don't know why I keep coming back to this subject.  But it has my curiosity. 

Then Howard, is there a slippery slope, or not so slippery and more a line of rigid decorum?  It seems our man Tiger has had more than his share of such displays of poor etiquette.  Didn't he and Stevie have an episode of farting and laughing about it not too long ago, clearly picked up by the broadcast?  Is that also uncouth enough to merit a fine?  Then what is next, belching overtly and purposefully?  Isn't that a sign of approval to a meal in some cultures?  Perhaps after a famous pimento cheese sandwich on the tee, a foreign player gives out a big overt belch; then what?  And what of the sweaty player who gets his undies in a bunch with some twisted recovery shot, reaches in on a hot day to grab a handful of male fruit and rearrange them in the old horn of plenty?  Ahhhh, that feels better!  ;D

I don't know... maybe rather than legislate how to be polite, suave and deboner... we ought to leave it to the public who are offended to say, 'what an a-hole', or to wives and mothers to correct their impolite children or spouses.  But then again that leaves Tiger a 50% disadvantage.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2012, 05:10:57 PM »
Dick I doubt you could ever upset me...

To address your argument

1 Healthy athletes can be carriers without being personally struck down by the disease. Carriers can spread.
2 I mentioned athletes generally in an earlier post.   Tell me are the young kids in London going to be influenced by my arguments against this or by watching top sportsmen ‘gobbing’ (to use the local vernacular) on TV?  The governing bodies should hit the players in the only place they seem to hurt these days , their wallets.


Maybe it is a European sensibility, but from Camnille, La Traviata, La Boheme through TB Sheets the shadow of Consumption lays a heavy pall. Generations were blighted by it and within my lifetime it was under control. Now there are drug resistant varieties and its making a comeback.

Now a question for you. Why on earth do you (and others) support, or at least tolerate, such a habit?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2012, 05:35:50 PM »
Tony,

Not to rain on your parade, but once again, its best to remain accurate.  Site after site all say that only "active TB" carriers are contagious.  Latent or non-active carriers are not contagious because the disease is not in thier saliva.

"However, a person with latent TB infection, but not disease, cannot spread the infection to others, since there are no TB germs in the sputum"

http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/tuberculosis/fact_sheet.htm

"Transmission can only occur from people with active—not latent—TB."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis#cite_note-Robbins-0

As most people have the latent form, most aren't contagious.  And of those who do have it and are being treated, they are almost always no longer contagious after only two weeks of treatment.


Carson Pilcher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2012, 05:57:49 PM »
The best thing that ever happened to me was being able to play in Scotland on a regular basis.  It immediately sped up my game, allowed me let go of my overall attachment to "score" and thus my enjoyment of the game.  Now do not get me wrong, I still burn internally to do my best, but when I see the ball leave the face not towards a hazard...I might as well pick up my bag and start walking after it.   :)

As far as spitting....I am not much of a spitter so I cannot judge.  However, I have played in several State tournaments.  Usually in Mid-Ams, no one spits...in Ams, most of the younger crowd spits.  Just an observation.  Maybe they think it is what they are supposed to do....or maybe salivary glands are more active at a younger age.  I have no idea.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2012, 05:59:53 PM »
Quote
Now a question for you. Why on earth do you (and others) support, or at least tolerate, such a habit?

Honestly Tony, I don't know?  I am and was appalled at Sergio's display, previously mentioned.  And, I didn't see the one of Tiger's in Dubai that he was fined for, although I read a good piece on it:

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/story/14692992/spittake-leaves-tigers-road-to-redemption-in-spittoon

I guess it is the manner in which it is done, as an overt act of disrespect or uncouthness, or a bi-product of honest and real physiological process during the moment, in play outdoors, etc.  I know I won't be apologizing for doing so when I get a mouthful of asthmatic or exercise induced or hypersensitive throaty over production of phlegm if I don't make a show of it, or discretely launch it out of companions way or they also do it in such manner.  I know I am not about to swallow that much. (still no jokes submitted by the way)  BTW also, we called it gobbing also when I was a kid.  

I'm not insensitive to any real potential for TB, and in fact my uncle Jim Daley, whom I never knew and died of TB a few months before I was born in 1948, after a long time confined in a sanitarium.  But, TB isn't really any concern in any of the environs, where I live or play.  So, I tolerate it, particularly if it is not so much a habit as an outdoor, in the moment sporting activity bi-product.  Certainly not indoors or at the church picnic or such polite and obvious place not to do so.  It is context of the setting for me I guess.

Now, for this most famous of spits, you will just have to sit through the first top 9 'favorite GWB moments', to get to the all important and relavant, #1!!!  :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gFqWwoipGs
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2012, 06:24:42 PM »
Given the percentage of skin-headed soccer hooligans lurking the streets of their urban areas, one is never sure if an innocent glance held a beat too long might be the precursor for a Liverpool "kiss', a Glascow "smile" or some other form of random violence aimed in your direction. I have never felt so vulnerable walking around the streets of any city, and I have lived in the Lower Haight, East of 16th Street in DC and in New York City when David Dinkins was mayor...

Maybe, as they leave your bloodied corpse for the local constabulary to sort out, they quip; "sorry old chap... dreadful misunderstanding...awfully sorry" ?
What a pile of crap.  Skin-headed soccer hooligans?  I take it that it's at least 20 years since you were anywhere near a "soccer hooligan"?  And when was the last time you wondered around a British inner city?  You describe an experience which was only to be had in the imagination of  Daily Mail readers at the very worst of times.

For what it's worth I feel pretty safe in most areas of most citieS I have ever visited but I'd far rather be forced to walk through a rough part of London than a rough part of Washington DC.  Whatever you think about the British dislike of spitting, your post was xenophobic rubbish of the most ignorant sort.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2012, 02:01:05 AM »
It's funny how everybody always talks about the pros playing slow and the tour never does anything, because it is true!!!!! You go to an amateur event, though, and the officials crack down on every slow player, especially the U.S. Am. I heard a stat where at least 10% of the golfers at least received a shot penalty during the stroke rounds. One golfer made an ace but received a two because of slow play. The USGA has timers every 4-5 holes (if you are wondering how a golfer with an ace received a slow play penalty) and they will crack down if you don't have a reason for playing an average of about 18 minutes per hole or less (bathroom break, looked for lost balls, made a 9, etc.) I wish the tour would do something about the slow play. I hate it when professional sports players, in general, think they can do anything because of their "I'm a pro" and rub-it-in-your-face attitude.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2012, 10:49:32 AM »
It's funny how everybody always talks about the pros playing slow and the tour never does anything, because it is true!!!!! You go to an amateur event, though, and the officials crack down on every slow player, especially the U.S. Am. I heard a stat where at least 10% of the golfers at least received a shot penalty during the stroke rounds. One golfer made an ace but received a two because of slow play. The USGA has timers every 4-5 holes (if you are wondering how a golfer with an ace received a slow play penalty) and they will crack down if you don't have a reason for playing an average of about 18 minutes per hole or less (bathroom break, looked for lost balls, made a 9, etc.) I wish the tour would do something about the slow play. I hate it when professional sports players, in general, think they can do anything because of their "I'm a pro" and rub-it-in-your-face attitude.

Are the players going to take their ball and go home? No play no pay. No visibility no endorsements. Get tough with these guys and it should trickle down to the amateurs. The culture has to change at the pro level to affect the rest of the game. The reason these guys do it is because they are allowed to do it. 

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2012, 03:31:15 PM »
Men who play sports have a tendency to spit when they do so.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2012, 04:54:40 PM »
This all comes down to the letter "r" and the difference between pigs and prigs.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2012, 05:50:55 PM »
Call me stodgy if you wish but I have always felt that golf has a certain decorum which lends to its overall quality and Keegan shouldn't have been spitting - even if it is just a nervous habit. (I don't he realized the issue and has said he is going to stop it and he should be commended for that.)  I played at one of the more upscale private clubs in my area on Thursday and someone in front of us was leaving sunflower shells on the greens and it was driving my host crazy and I agree. 

Okay, so here is another one that bothers me but I am sure others will find me terribly old fashioned.  Sometimes I watch the Morning Drive show in the Golf Channel and the one guy is always wearing a really nice golf shirt and sweater with some cool logo on it.  On the other hand, Eric, whatever his name is, always wears some non-golf long sleeved shirt with a couple of buttons opened.  To me, he should either be wearing a golf shirt and/or sweater or a jacket and tie - is that too much to ask?     

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2012, 06:39:38 PM »
Call me stodgy if you wish but I have always felt that golf has a certain decorum which lends to its overall quality and Keegan shouldn't have been spitting - even if it is just a nervous habit. (I don't he realized the issue and has said he is going to stop it and he should be commended for that.)  I played at one of the more upscale private clubs in my area on Thursday and someone in front of us was leaving sunflower shells on the greens and it was driving my host crazy and I agree.  

Okay, so here is another one that bothers me but I am sure others will find me terribly old fashioned.  Sometimes I watch the Morning Drive show in the Golf Channel and the one guy is always wearing a really nice golf shirt and sweater with some cool logo on it.  On the other hand, Eric, whatever his name is, always wears some non-golf long sleeved shirt with a couple of buttons opened.  To me, he should either be wearing a golf shirt and/or sweater or a jacket and tie - is that too much to ask?      

you mean the guy who looks like a complete tool on the way to a disco?
excess makeup and all...

Holly Sonders is actually the golfer of the group and yet is rarely called on to comment,but when she does she actually adds to the conversation.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 06:46:45 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2012, 07:15:03 PM »
Sorry Jerry but I have to agree with Jeff on the Critical Issue of the Morning Drive co-hosts. Unfortunately I can't remember Eric's co-host's name but he looks like some weanie blueblood named Chip or Trip or Trey. Maybe his Country Day School chums still call him Flap or Scooter because he looks and sounds like he might be able to get a game with another famous vest-wearing guy, Rick Sanitorium. Well dressed?  Yes. Interesting, a guy you might want to have a beer with?  Not so much.

Just remembered. It's Gary something.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 07:58:12 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Anthony Gray

Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2012, 07:52:40 PM »


  Fish bars are usually clean places.

  Anthony


Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2012, 11:25:12 PM »
Jerry Kluger, either you aren't stodgy or we both are.

Bradley's spitting is similar to an untucked shirt or a backwards hat.  It doesn't really hurt anyone but it just isn't a good idea, and I wouldn't let my children do it on a golf course.

WW

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On Slow Play and Spitting
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2012, 12:16:12 AM »
Terry: I read Jeff's post as agreeing with me that Eric looks like he's on his way to a disco and not all like a golfer or a host on a golf show. 

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