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Ran Morrissett

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Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« on: December 11, 2001, 08:31:18 PM »
Each of us is hopefully always adding a bit here and a bit there when it comes to golf course architecture.

What features did you see in 2001 that helped expand your appreciation of the art of golf course architecture?

And be specific!

My quick list of new features would include:

1) the way Fowler routed the 9th fairway at Eastward Ho! along the spine of a ridge, with fall offs on either side and a cool ramp that runs the ball onto the green.

2) the way the angle of the 16th green at PacDunes toward the outside of the dogleg will confound golfers for years to come.

3) the boldness of the manufactured punchbowl green complex at Chicago GC makes one wish for more such thrilling creations. Same for its double plateau 6th green.

4) the pocket that the 11th green at Charles River CC sits in. As Francis Ouimet said, "The hardest shot at CRCC is the 2nd shot to the par three 11th."

Plenty of neat things around greater Phillie too but my wife tells me if I keep typing, there'll be trouble!

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rich_Goodale

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2001, 02:49:51 AM »
In no particular order:

1.  The "bunker" 25 yards or so behind one of the par 3s at Pacific Dunes, highlighting the "Is it real or is it Memorex?" naturer of the course.

2.  The seamless meld of some of the tees and greens at Applebrook, particularly between 3 and 4.

3.  The "poofs" being built into th egreens and surrounds at Friar's Head.

4.  The imagination and passion of guys like Tom Paul and Pete Galea as they drove me around their potential routings.

5.  The "naturalness" of Kingsbarns, even though I knew that much of it had been "manufactured."

6.  How a mediocre hole with one good feature (the fairway of the current 8th hole of the Stuie course at Dornoch) can likely be transformed into a great hole of completely different character (it will be 550 yards) when man puts his imagination and earth moving equipment to proper use.

7.  The awesome simplicity of Shinnecock.

8.  The middle bits of Merion (holes 7-13), whose shortness and quirkiness may keep the club from future Opens, but which are the heart and soul of the course and why it is such a great, great routing.

All in all it was a pretty good year.......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2001, 03:54:32 AM »
I'm glad your wife let you type just long enough to ask this question, Ran, it's a very good one and I hope we'll get some thoughtful responses so we can all see where various people are coming from and the things that are getting their notice and are in their minds with the art of architecture.

This year for me:

Applebrook:
A number of green to tee "melds" through the use of connecting chipping areas. I love the look, the playability and basically the coziness of it all--and I think it's a great new use of a vestige of the past that couples up and really connects the routing and hopefully sends some kind of a message to the disconnections in routings in many modern designs and cartball courses. I  like the use of tee melds and I also think I could get fond of a few green to green chipping area connections. Must mention the meld at Friar's #6-#7, not just a meld but apparently a low profile tee that is so low profile as to be virtually indistinguishable.

Hidden Creek:
Hole #8! I have a fairly good idea what was there originally and what is now the designer's architecture although it won't be long before it will be very hard to tell, but it's a hole that new construction needs more of. Short, thoughtful, multi-optional and unique with apparently a real spectrum of meaning in the choices and a green with a mid-green feature that makes it hard to wait to go out there and play the hole for a few hours, over and over! Holes #4, #5, #11. Some unique uses of front to back and back to front combinations in single greens through the use of inline and perpindiclar swales!

The Bridge:
I really would like to play this one someday, certainly the holes with the dramatic downhill elevation changes. It looks like breathtaking "skyball" golf to me and it would be neat to play that combined with the firmness that I hear Tiska's got going on the ground!

Pacific Dunes:
Doak and Co's use of dramatic and natural topography on a few fairways, #1, #16 and most definitely the look, playability and feeling from the tee on #9 and what's in front of the golfer! Hole #6--I love it!

Friar's Head:
There's a ton here for any serious student of architecture to observe, study and try to figure out! Natural fairway topography--hole #9! This isn't necessarily a feature but the dunes to flat land and the flat land to dunes "transition" holes are case studies in routing and site sensitive architecture. #14 greensite is a must see. Hole #5--a case study in subtle mulit-optionalism!

On most of these courses the bunkering is a return to what bunkering once was--in EVERY WAY! And the areas off the tees, fairways and greens is a return to true naturalness! And the feature that really appeals to me that's used liberally on most of these courses is the clever uses of width--fairway width!

But the actual feature that wins the award this year for me is the natural dunescape mound that fronts Friar's Head's #10!! I was fortunate enough to see this particular natural and highly unusual feature filter through the mind of the architects for about 18 months! I think it's probably safe to say that most architects today would have removed it or seriously minimized it! The par 3 green behind this blind tee shot is immensely long and very subtlely collecting from side to side. It's exciting to imagine the thought processes, shot selections and risk/reward options that the natural and architectural features on this hole will inspire and what the results will be!

But the interest to me is not just that they used this feature and had the guts to do it but how they used it and what they designed to go with it. I have no idea if some inspiration didn't come down from nearby NGLA on this one but I have a feeling if C.B. MacDonald could see this one he'd be envious. Friar's #10 has fame written all over it, and the highly unusual natural mound which clearly started the hole off is the most memorable feature I saw in 2001.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2001, 04:09:29 AM »
It's a bit early to tell but what I've seen of Rustic Canyon there are some memorable features and concepts there--particularly holes #12 and #13 which I know best at this point. #7 too. That's to be discussed later, but from what I can see they will be memorable and I sure hope for more than just people who are really into architecture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2001, 05:49:04 AM »
By avoiding the Tarantula bunker on the third at SFGC I was able to experience from afar and I giggled like a little girl as I walked by to the right on the runway upto the green. This feature will be permantly embbeded in my mind.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2001, 06:51:08 AM »
Hmmm..is this gonna turn into another list where we each highlight the great places we've been this year (wink, wink, nod, nod Mr. Goodale).

I've had an incredible year also, seeing a lot of what Rich did and a lot he didn't.  Bill V. touring me around Saucon and then Lehigh taught me a lot.

And sorry not to be as specific as you like, Ran... but for me it all boils down to one memorable morning:  I saw NGLA this year for the first time.  Rich will likely be shaking his head as he reads this, but for me, no further explanation is needed.  Pure freakin' genius.

TH

ps - seeing the inside of Cypress again after all these years was "revelatory" as well...

pss - I don't get what you're saying re 16 Pacific Dunes, Ran - playing it 3 times downwind we just fired away at the green -the dogleg was irrelevant.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tony Ristola

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2001, 06:59:22 AM »
The cart girl at... never mind   :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2001, 07:45:05 AM »
The hog's back fairway (more like an elephant) at #2 at Lehigh, which is invisible from the tee, though right in front of you.

Several wonderful shortish par 4's where the green is just an extension of the sloping away fairway and the green slopes away with it, requiring shots that need to be landed short of the green to bounce on.  They include:  #8 at Forest Creek, #3 at Beechtree, #10 at Lehigh, #9 and #15 at Twisted Dune, and #3 on Huntingdon Valley's C-9.  (#9 at TD and #3 at HV-C are par 5's)

The picture on the wall in the clubhouse of LuLu's old #17, with it's exceptional Ross fairway bunkering and peninsula green surrounded on three sides by one big bunker.

The majestic views and fun challenge of Wolf Creek (at Paradise Canyon).

The incredible bunkering at The Dunes G&B Club.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

BarnyF

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2001, 08:01:35 AM »
The photographic history Paul Richards created on the walls at Beverly.  This coupled with with the current recapturing of the putting surface areas is a must see for anyone interested in the evolution/revolution of a classic course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JohnV

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2001, 10:11:00 AM »
The coolest thing I saw this year was shown to me by Geoffrey Childs when we played Yale.  It would be the way you can put from the back right on #10 to the front right. :D  I believe credit goes to Ran for seeing it out.  For those who haven't been there, if the hole was on the front right and you were 20 feet behind it you couldn't keep the ball on the green going at the hole, but by putting to the front-center of the green (about 20 feet right of the hole), you can catch a knob that was obviously put there for that purpose and get kicked back to the hole.

There were so many at Pacific Dunes it is almost impossible to remember them all after only 3 rounds.  I've got to get back up there soon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2001, 10:14:15 AM »
;D

GREAT call, John - GC showed us that when I was there also - it reminded me of the "Mystery Spot" in Santa Cruz...

Very, very cool.  There's a lot of that at Yale...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2001, 10:14:35 AM »
The most memorable features:

Korai grass at Kawana Japan..Putting on it was like putting on sandpaper
Single Trees as strategic hazards-the gumdrop tree at the 10th at the Addington or the 14th by Banks at Hackensack
The hogback green which makes for very dicey chips at the 14th Portmarnock
The even grander second shot at the 9th Royal County Down than the 8th at Pebble. (IMHO)
The most natural greensite I have seen at #16 West Sussex
The great green site locations and strategy at the Par 3s at Swinley Forest and Rye
The wind as a hazard at Sand Hills, putting downgrain, downwind and downhill at the 18th saw a 10 foot putt end up 40 yards down the fairway
The stunning simplicity and naturalness of Shinnecock and Sand Hills
Friar's Head-have to concur with Tom Paul..The knob on the 10th and the size of the green are the ultimate in quirk. I am a huge fan..The four putt is alive on that green even if you hit it in regulation..At first I thought it too big but upon further reflection I think Ken Bakst has it right on that hole.  The knob will and greensize will also let the greenskeeper have a lot of fun with blind flag placements. In echoing with the Friar's Head theme, the duneland natural features and bunkering from the elevated tee on #15 (with LI sound and Connecticut as the backdrop)..A site that will become of the game's most spectacular.

Finally, the most memorable thing I saw was Jim Reilly striking a shanked 8 iron 50 yards into a deer's arse at Shinnecock #11 after I called the shot..
 ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2001, 10:37:19 AM »

Quote
The most memorable features:

The even grander second shot at the 9th Royal County Down than the 8th at Pebble. (IMHO)

Naffer,  jeez I love RCD, and I put #9 as the greatest #9 I have ever played, but if you think that 2nd shot is "grander" than that on 8 at Pebble... well, you need to see Pebble for yourself again.  Oh joy, oh rapture, you soon will!  I will accept all crow eating when I see you on 1/12.

Cheers!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2001, 10:57:07 AM »
TH,

What is it you have against RCD?  I said grand b/c I think the setting with Newcastle, the Sliev Donard Hotel and the mountains of mourne as your backdrop (with the ocean left over the 1st) is a little more theatrical than Pebble.  I just loved hitting the shot.  Is #8 at Pebble prettier, yes, harder yes because of the tiny green, more spectacular probably so...I will let you know when I see you...Besides, the 16th at CP crushes them all anyway for theater, setting, beauty, challenge and grandness..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2001, 11:03:31 AM »
Naffer, I have NOTHING against RCDown, God I could live there in a heartbeat and be forever happy... It's always way at the top of any lists I ever compile, as a course, and like I say #9 is the best #9 I've ever played.

You just happened to compare it with the one hole that beats it in any respect.

Oh, I dig the Mourne Mountain behind, and one of my most cherished photos has me with two buddies on that hill that you hit your driver over, posed with said background.  But to have that view, you'd have to hit the world's strangest drive and have it come to rest on the top of that hill... from the fairway below, the view isn't as great... and the shot is just a long one with no carry, a darn tough hill on each side... fantastic, love it, but you listed yourself the virtues of 8Pebble... sorry, RCD just falls way short.  That's cool - ANYTHING does!

And you're right, 16Cypress blows them both away... so does the tee shot on 17... and the 2nd if you stay to the right of the trees on 17.. and maybe the tee shot on 9... 2nd on 13... tee shot on 15... tee shot on 2... 2nd or 3rd on 7... 2nd on 11... you wanna talk "grand"?  Cypress wrote the book.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2001, 01:45:06 PM »
Ran,
The #1 feature for me were the totally deceptive mounds employed by Charles Banks on the 336 yd. 14th hole at Essex County CC in NJ.. They caused me to believe that the green was sited between the flanking ones and in front of the center one when in fact the horseshoe shaped putting surface was actually behind!! the center one. I had to go back to the tee and have another look. I then realized that the setting of the hole into a hillside and placement of the mounds created this illusion of where one would think the green should be.
I liked to think that I am not that easily fooled. :)  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2001, 06:24:20 PM »
The recent interesting profiles of Essex County, Salem, Charles River, Beverly and Broadmoor inspired me to seek out a number of nearby Ross courses -- Columbus, Springfield, Shaker Heights, Miami Valley, Canton Brookside, Congress Lake and Lancaster. What struck me more than anything was something that I had never thought much about - the routing. Brilliant routings that seem to take advantage of every natural ground feature and as a result I've been trying figure out if Ross had a secret or a formula.

Other memorable features:
The enormous grass crater that comes into play on the tee shot of the dramatic downhill 10th at Kirtland. And Alison's interesting use of the river on the 11th, 12th, 13th and 15th.

Finding Willie Park's trademark Table green at Congress Lake.

Flynn use of diagonal ridges or at least designing his holes to attack a ridge diagonally at Country Club (Cleveland) and in particular the very interesting par-4 17th where the diagonal ridge forms a kind of Redan effect near the green.

The fabulous par-3 2nd and 5th greens at Congress Lake which share the same dramatic ridge-like formation - one coming in from the east and the other from the west. I'm not sure if this Park's or Ross's handy work, although I suspect it is Ross.

The mind-boggling greens at Canton Brookside which do not take a backseat to anything MacKenzie or Maxwell created in the US -- reminiscent of storm at sea.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Greg Stebbins

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2001, 07:48:05 PM »
Jim Kennedy,

Thank you for pointing out the deceptiveness on #14 at Essex County.  I remember playing my practice round there for the state am a couple years ago.  I got up to the tee and the guy I was playing with was trying to explain the hole to me.  I thought he was nuts until I walked off the green!

Its a great hole in the middle of a great nine holes of golf.  Can't wait to see it after the bunker restoration project.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2001, 08:52:06 PM »
When I read the "Subject", the first thing that came to my mind?  "In golf?"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom (Guest)

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2001, 12:40:53 AM »
I would say the bunker in front of the green on the par 4 11th on the New Course at Walton Heath.

In order to open up the green you need to drive down the right hand side of the fairway.  The second is normally a 7 or 8 iron but what you cannot see from the fairway is a deep, perfectly round pit of a bunker directly in your line about 12-13 feet deep.  The reason you cannot see it is because there is no banking and the sides are covered in grass with just a small area of sand at the bottom.  

The brilliance lies in its total arbitrary quality - there is no real reason for it to be there, it is just like Fowler decided to start digging for Australia !!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2001, 06:56:13 AM »
This year wasn't full of too many new courses that I was able to see.  Memorable features that I saw this year were probably most related to my west coast trip in august and were shown to me by the inimitable Mr. Naccarato.  I think I was most impressed by the grace and style of the Thomas bunkering and overall course presentation at Riviera.  Since we only toured the course near sunset and I actually didn't get to play it, the memory is strictly visual rather than experiencial as a test of hitting golf shots.  Generally, I am not wowed simply by the highly groomed perfection of turf conditions so much as the routing and natural or constructed features that present interesting golf.  But for me, Riviera presents both the elegant and stylized ambiance of a highly conditioned golf course with really artful work in both the bunkering, construction of greens structure, and routing within its storied setting.  I felt like it was a special place to be.  Also on that trip, I would count on the memorable experience of pounding around in the pre-seeding stage of construction of what I believe will be a special course at Rustic Canyon, and a memorable day with Dan King and Tommy on a very-very good course at Barona Creek.  It is the best course I have seen in approaching the excitement of the sand hills qualities of firm and fast conditions, and the bunkering work by Eckenrode is exquisite.

I suspect that I missed out on a most memorable golf experience when I backed out of the Pacific Dunes trip in Sept.  :'(

However, one of the down sides of so much exposure to GCA and nearly daily discussion of interesting features, and sharing pictures of far off places that depict seminal golf course feature work is that I am not as easily moved as compared to merely impressed by something memorable.  I can basically say that I was not "moved" by anything I saw in 2001, with the exception of repeated visits and walking a particular and special piece of land I have my eye on in Nebraska for its amazing possibilities.  

In reflection, I can look back to only a handful of times in my golfing experience when I was actually viscerally moved by the site of features on a golf course, those being:  first time I saw any golf course with significantly classic golden era features at Lawsonia - as a youngster; the first time I began to regularly visit a golf course construction project on a weekly basis from start to finish;  the first time I saw Sand Hills in 1996; the first time I experienced Pete Dye's work at Ocean at Kiawah; playing in first event held at Whistling Straits and meeting Dye on the course where he stood by and watched our group play one of his most Dyabolical holes (17); seeing MacKenzie's work at Crystal Downs, Ross's work at Pinehurst and area, and Raynor's work that so closely resembles Langford's that I was previously familiar with.   And, THE most moving - the first time I saw and played Wild Horse GC in Gothenburg, Nebraska, which in my mind exemplifies everything I personally feel a golf course should be to the extent I went right over and bought one of the adjacent lots there to be close to the project in anyway that I could. 8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Doug Wright

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Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2001, 07:50:34 AM »
I owe my appreciation for golf architecture mostly to what I've learned from this site in 2001. As I approach my one year anniversary on GCA,  I was reflecting on how GCA has changed my view of golf courses and golf in general. Although I'm learning more daily, my views are a work in progress and maybe always will be,  I have some general and some specific recollections of 2001:

General--I now look at each golf course differently than before (Praise the Lord, As Mine Eyes Have Been Opened!!), with a much more critical eye but at the same time a somewhat forgiving eye. By the latter,  I mean that I'm looking for the good features as well as the bad, the diamond in the rough of an otherwise mediocre hole or design. I spend a lot of time saying to myself (as most of my playing partners don't get it, I don't often say it aloud) "What was he [the architect] thinking?" Also in general I am much more focused on routing (with an emphasis on greensite placement) and bunkering.

Specific--

Walking Ross's Wellshire GC with the original Ross plans in hand to see what is still there and what isn't (what is still there is really terrific).

Wilmington Municipal GC, a complete and stunning Ross restoration. What bunkering and subtlety! The Volcano hole and cross bunkers. What Wellshire could be...

Talking Stick North, a course I liked very much before GCA, but loved after my introduction to GCA due to the bunkering, variety and routing by C&C. My playing partner asked me what the hell I was doing as I wandered off to take a look at bunkers on a couple of holes.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2001, 08:53:39 PM »
Not saying that I like it but, the one of the most memorable featurew would be Darwin Sharp III's use of railroad ties at his new course in Estero,FL., it makes PB Dye look mellow.

Also, I'll never forget the spider bigger than the head of my driver at Bear's Best, more memorable than the black "coal" sand on two holes.

The most memorable feature I saw this year is a repeat from last year, and probably will be the same in 2002, the greens at Crystal Downs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2001, 08:15:46 AM »
Ran,

YALE, YALE, YALE
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

mstuck00

Re: Most memorable features you saw in 2001?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2001, 11:54:18 AM »
And now for some controversy - my most memorable features in 2001:  Ballybunion Cashen - the entire course!

In previous years, I've taken an annual 8 day trip to Scotland, Ireland or England to play the "great" links courses.  Those itineraries were usually restricted to the recognized elite due to time constraints.  This year, I was fortunate to spend 30 days in Ireland & Scotland which allowed me to spend more time on the "hidden gems" as well as a few of the more "controversial" designs.  While nothing new broke into my perfect 10 category (Royal Portrush, Royal County Down, Royal Dornoch, Turnberry, Ballybunion Old & Muirfield), I was pleasantly surprised by a number of hidden gems - Brora & Carne in particular, one new course - Kingsbarns, and one controversial design - Ballybunion Cashen.

I'm not an architect - just an avid hacker that has played about 60 links courses in Britain/Ireland.  I've always relied on the ratings/recommendations of the experts, and therefore I've always passed on Ballybunion Cashen - even when I was in town to play its illustrious neighbor.  I had read that it was over the top (like Tralee - a course that I'm not fond of).  While a few holes on the Cashen course push the envelope, I found it to be an awesome course, one that should certainly be played if you have secured a tee time on the Old Course.  I'd even go so far as to rate it as one of the top six courses in Ireland (after RP, RCD, BB Old, Portmarnock and Lahinch but ahead of Sligo, Baltray, Portstewart, Waterville...).  So what did I miss?  I understand that its design has been "softened" over the years, maybe popular opinion doesn't reflect the current design?  A hacker's recommendation: take another look at Ballybunion Cashen.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »