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Emile Bonfiglio

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WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« on: February 17, 2012, 10:33:44 PM »
OK, now that the annual Riviera love fest is almost over, we move on to the WGC Match Play. Keeping with the bracketology theme of the tournament and seeing how poorly this course is received, which course should replace Dove Mountain? It must be a course that could fit into the West Coast Swing, preferably in Arizona. Fire Away
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Greg Chambers

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 10:40:44 PM »
LACC
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Mac Plumart

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 10:43:37 PM »
Desert Forest?
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 10:52:14 PM »
There was speculation that the Match Play could be moved to Doral and the WGC event there could go to Detroit as Cadillac/GM  is a new PGAT sponsor.

Accenture is out as a sponsor and a Tucson event is not a big draw.
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mike_beene

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 12:24:24 AM »
If Boise and San Diego State are in the Big East, then Doral can be part of the west coast swing.What about a market like Austin.Weather fine,huge population,fun town and no tour event except a fall seniors.ACC or a Barton course that are severe for stroke good for match play
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Kalen Braley

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 11:33:17 AM »
Apache Stronghold!!
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Andy Troeger

Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 12:34:23 PM »
The ironic thing is that if you take out the courses that most likely wouldn't want it (like a couple already mentioned) and those that couldn't do the logistics of that type of event, you don't really have a ton of options in AZ that are significantly better IMO than Dove Mountain. I played it a little over a year ago and thought it better than I expected--perhaps the original version was too severe but the changes make it tough but interesting.

One course that I think would pose an interesting challenge for the pros would be Desert Mountain's Renegade Course. It has two greens/two pins for normal play and can be set up to play very difficult. At the same time, given its a Match Play event you could also mix in some of the "easy" pins to create some birdie opportunities.
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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 03:15:06 PM »
The weather in Austin in February is still hit and miss. The options for this weekend coming up are South florida, Arizona and California.
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Sam Morrow

Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 04:32:51 PM »
Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on February 18, 2012, 03:15:06 PM
The weather in Austin in February is still hit and miss. The options for this weekend coming up are South florida, Arizona and California.


Agree, Austin in February is no good. I was supposed to play this morning in Bastrop and it rained 4 inches and it's like 45. I think TPC Scottsdale would be cool for matchplay.
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Martin Toal

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 04:55:16 AM »
Given that this is supposedly a World event, there must be places in that homogeneous entity sometimes described as 'Rest of World' that would work. SA or Oz, for example?


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Emile Bonfiglio

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 11:57:53 AM »
It has to fit into the current PGA schedule. You won't get guys going LA ---> OZ/SA ---> Doral....won't happen.
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Don_Mahaffey

Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 01:19:59 PM »
Stone Eagle would be as good a venue as Dove Mountain for match play and probably draw larger crowds.

Cabo San Lucas has great weather in Feb.

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Peter Ferlicca

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 01:49:39 PM »
Stone Eagle is a great place for matchplay, BUT there is no way in hell that place can handle large crowds.  First off, how are you going to get everyone up the hill.  Second, it is not a friendly course to just walk around and rope off.  We don't even do horse races out there because it would be chaos. 
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Greg Tallman

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 03:31:31 PM »
Quote from: Don_Mahaffey on February 19, 2012, 01:19:59 PM
Stone Eagle would be as good a venue as Dove Mountain for match play and probably draw larger crowds.

Cabo San Lucas has great weather in Feb.



We have a couple of WGC worthy courses down this way that would lure viewers in droves. Ticket sales on the other hand... would need to get creative with the marketing and packaging of such an event but it would be nice to show off what we (and Daimante) have down this way.

The proposals for the silly season events are all just that... silly. "You guys guarantee 5 million and you can recoup your money locally through advertising." No thanks.

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Matthew Petersen

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 03:48:32 PM »
The rumors last year were all of the tournament heading to southern California ... of course then they cut a deal to play it at Dove Mountain for one more year. I would be surprised if the tournament is in Arizona next year.
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Anthony Butler

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 04:33:28 PM »
Quote from: Matthew Petersen on February 20, 2012, 03:48:32 PM
The rumors last year were all of the tournament heading to southern California ... of course then they cut a deal to play it at Dove Mountain for one more year. I would be surprised if the tournament is in Arizona next year.

Even though the crowd is very spread out.... you could basically stand behind every competitor on every tee on the round of 64 and have a clear view of their tee shot. Also you don't have to pay for overpriced bottled water from any stand. It's an Arizona state law that no-one can refuse you water...
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Matthew Petersen

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 04:38:00 PM »
Quote from: Anthony Butler on February 20, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: Matthew Petersen on February 20, 2012, 03:48:32 PM
The rumors last year were all of the tournament heading to southern California ... of course then they cut a deal to play it at Dove Mountain for one more year. I would be surprised if the tournament is in Arizona next year.

Even though the crowd is very spread out.... you could basically stand behind every competitor on every tee on the round of 64 and have a clear view of their tee shot. Also you don't have to pay for overpriced bottled water from any stand. It's an Arizona state law that no-one can refuse you water...

But you will have to pay $10 to park this year. And $1 for a pairing sheet.

I have enjoyed going down to the tournament in years past (I live in Phoenix), and I will be there again Thursday. After the masses at the Phoenix Open, or even something like the US Open, the Match Play is a real treat as a spectator.

Still, I'd be surprised if it remains in Arizona. The only other likely alternative in Tucson is Tucson national, where the old PGA event used to be played ... I don't see why anyone would want that (other than TN). There are a few options up in Phoenix (places that have previously hosted tour events include Superstition Mountain, Desert Mountain, and Grayhawk), but more like it ends up somewhere in California (maybe back to La Costa now that it has been renovated?). Then again, maybe no one will make a big play for it, and it will stay at Dove Mountain.
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Kalen Braley

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 08:13:33 PM »
How about Wolf Creek in Mesquite?  Could they get spectators out there or would that be a hazard?
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Andy Troeger

Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2012, 10:53:39 PM »
Kalen,
That would be rather amusing--talk about the pros complaining! As to spectators--no. Some of the holes are actually pretty close together and the others are surrounded by canyons and bluffs--it would be a disaster waiting to happen. If you were going to play any kind of event at Wolf Creek, match play instead of stroke play would be the way to do it though.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 04:01:24 PM »
As posted at http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/22/pga-tour-commits-to-tucsonsort-of.html#comments

Finchem is leaning towards keeping it in Tucson but the venue may change.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Kalen Braley

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 04:07:47 PM »
Quote from: Brian Sheehy on February 22, 2012, 04:05:57 PM
Why not Bandon?? Forget the bloody spectators!

Bandon in February could be really ugly though...unless they move it to a different time of the year. Given the weather, and remote location,  I'm guessing lots of players would drop out.

This really needs to remain at a Arizona/So Cal venue

Is Rustic long enough?
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Bill Seitz

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 04:37:02 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on February 22, 2012, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: Brian Sheehy on February 22, 2012, 04:05:57 PM
Why not Bandon?? Forget the bloody spectators!

Bandon in February could be really ugly though...unless they move it to a different time of the year. Given the weather, and remote location,  I'm guessing lots of players would drop out.

This really needs to remain at a Arizona/So Cal venue

Is Rustic long enough?

My sense would be no.  I'm not sure there's a par five other than 13 that would be a difficult reach for those guys.  #s 3 and 12 would basically play as really long par 3s.  However, with it being a match play event, and relation to par not really a part of leaderboards, who cares how long the course is? So what if guys are going 12 or 13 under?  We wouldn't really ever see those results anyway.  The problem is that I don't think there's room for all the corporate stuff.
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Jud_T

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 05:02:01 PM »
Barona Creek!
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Kalen Braley

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 05:51:43 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on February 22, 2012, 05:02:01 PM
Barona Creek!

Sounds good to me, plays almost 7100 from the tips, that should be long enough!!
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David Kelly

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Re: WGC - Dove Mountain OUT, so who's IN?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 06:35:27 PM »
Please keep the PGA waaaay away from Rustic Canyon, they'll only f___ it up.  Still I bet there would be more missed 5'-and-in putts at Rustic Canyon than at just about any course on the tour.
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