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Ally Mcintosh

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The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« on: February 17, 2012, 06:48:06 AM »
Following along the lines of the very good current threads on green contouring, what are some of the wildest greens that are still out there from classic courses (let's say pre-1960 taking our lead from Golf Week)?

It would be nice for this to be as much of a photo thread as possible...

By wild, let's take that to mean internal contour more so than constant pitch... I hadn't seen many of those Maxwell rolls photos before... They were a good start...
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 07:52:23 AM »


The Himalayas St Andrews!!!
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 07:56:18 AM »
Quote from: Melvyn Hunter Morrow on February 17, 2012, 07:52:23 AM


The Himalayas St Andrews!!!

If we are talking St Andrews, what is the wildest green on The Old Course?

Some have ferocious pitches (7,11), most have big contours around the edge of the greens and green complexes.... Which has the biggest contour changes nearer the middle? 12, 14, 16?
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 08:00:55 AM »


Do Double Greens count?
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Tom_Doak

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 08:03:49 AM »
Ally:

I did a small list of the 18 Most Eccentric Putting Greens in the back of The Confidential Guide.  I'm surprised to see that half of them are modern greens!  The older ones:

2nd St. Andrews (Old)
4th Rolling Rock, PA  - Donald Ross
6th National Golf Links - C. B. Macdonald
7th Victoria Golf Club, Canada - A. V. Macan
9th Yale University - Macdonald / Raynor
11th CC of Charleston - Raynor  [since changed]
16th North Berwick (West Links)
17th Gleneagles (Queen's) - James Braid
18th Indianwood (Old) - Wilfrid Reid

Those just barely scratch the surface.  Can't believe I didn't get any MacKenzie greens in there ... 8 and 16 at Pasatiempo have to be up there with any.  Can't believe I didn't get any at White Bear Yacht Club [the 11th and 12th are favorites, but not necessarily the wildest].  Or how about the 2nd green at Machrihanish?  The 5th at Lancaster?  The 5th at Merion?  The 16th at Pine Valley?  Or Sea Hedrig?  Or anything at Crystal Downs?  Or the 4th at Myopia -- God, I hope they haven't changed it.
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 08:08:18 AM »
Thanks Tom...

Many of those I haven't seen...

The 17th at Gleneagles (Queens) though - I'm finding it hard to recall exactly what happened on that green... Narrow, front to back rings a bell...
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Tom_Doak

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 08:09:41 AM »
The Gleneagles green was on there because it is VERY long and VERY narrow.  I didn't want that list to be all about contour alone.  It probably wouldn't fit the definition of "wild," but it is "eccentric".
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Mac Plumart

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 08:09:53 AM »
16 at N. Berwick (like Tom said) is off the charts cool/wild.



Also, some of the angles/pitches of some old school greens are pretty neat/severe...

11 at The Old Course

13 at Muirfield



18 at Inverness





Does anyone have a photo of the Redan (highlighting it pitch) at Yeamans?  Wow!
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 08:16:57 AM by Mac Plumart »
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Tom_Doak

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 08:12:39 AM »
How about the 2nd or 5th or 7th or 11th or 14th at Somerset Hills?

Or lots of greens at Hollywood, N.J.?  Or Forsgate?

Or, just maybe, something at Oakmont? 

Or the 14th at Augusta?
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Jeff_Mingay

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 08:19:42 AM »
Tom,

I'd forgot you listed the 7th at Victoria in the Confidential Guide. Good call. That is a 'wild' green; massive (and really artistic) contour in a very small area. Victoria also has the three-tier 3rd green, which climbs up a hill with more than 10 feet of elevation change rising from front to back. That's also a 'wild' green. The 9th at Victoria is pretty 'crazy' as well, featuring severe tilt.
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jeffmingay.com

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 08:21:56 AM »
Thanks Tom, Mac...

Jeff - any photos of those Victoria greens by any chance?
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 08:24:16 AM »
# 16 at Essex Coiunty (NJ)
# 1, 4, 6, 8, 11 at Mountain Ridge
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Jud_T

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 08:37:17 AM »
I love the 2nd green at the Old Course.  Can't understand why that hole flies under the radar.
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Mac Plumart

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 08:47:01 AM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on February 17, 2012, 08:37:17 AM
I love the 2nd green at the Old Course.  Can't understand why that hole flies under the radar.

Jud, I think this is the approach to 2.



Please correct me if I've got the wrong photo.

But regardless, I agree. 2 at The Old Course is really something special and put a huge smile on my face.
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Mike Nuzzo

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 09:13:45 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 17, 2012, 08:24:16 AM
# 1, 4, 6, 8, 11 at Mountain Ridge

Pat
I haven't seen Essex County's greens
Mountain Ridge's greens are very nice and way more interesting that a ton of modern blah greens, but I'd hardly call them wild.
Lots of little contours.
Please help me understand why they are wild?
Cheers
Mike
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Tim Gavrich

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 09:18:46 AM »
I would actually call the 8th green at Yale more eccentric than the 9th.  Perhaps the 10th is even more eccentric still.  No matter what, though, all three are wonderful greens.
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Ed Oden

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 09:25:31 AM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on February 17, 2012, 08:09:53 AM
Does anyone have a photo of the Redan (highlighting it pitch) at Yeamans?  Wow!



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Adam Clayman

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 09:27:25 AM »
Highlands Links, Nova Scotia.
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Joe Leenheer

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2012, 09:33:54 AM »
I would be remiss not to mention the infamous Canton Brookside in Ohio (Donald Ross).  With the great conditioning and speed some greens only have a few hole locations. 

I will do my best to get a photo tour in the spring....

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Jeff_Mingay

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2012, 09:37:13 AM »
Ally,

Here's Victoria's 3rd green (pre-bunker reno.):


And, here's the 7th:
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Dave Givnish

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2012, 09:41:15 AM »
Original #12 green at Whitemarsh BS (Before Shearer)

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Ed Oden

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2012, 09:46:55 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 17, 2012, 08:12:39 AM
How about the 2nd or 5th or 7th or 11th or 14th at Somerset Hills?

Most of my pictures of Somerset Hills are from the fairway/tee.  But, hopefully, you can get an idea the contours.

#2


#5 (Wish I had taken a picture showing what is really going on at the back part of this green, it is amazing)


#7


#11


#14


Tom, why didn't you include #13?





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Mark Pearce

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2012, 09:51:01 AM »
Huntercombe?
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Jaeger Kovich

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2012, 09:57:21 AM »
Tom - You mentioned a couple of the greens at Pasatiempo to me last week, when we were discussing the amount of fall on Crystal #1.. Maybe I report back next week.

Others:
# 10 at Yale isn't far off #9, just different shapes
#1 at Winged Foot which normally has the most 3+ putts during tournaments with the 2 vertical ridges in back and low portion front left
#1 at National Golf Links is pretty wild too

Nothing at Pinehurst - #2, 5, or 13?
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Ed Oden

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 10:08:32 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 17, 2012, 08:24:16 AM
# 16 at Essex Coiunty (NJ)
# 1, 4, 6, 8, 11 at Mountain Ridge

Here are #8...


...and #11...
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