[Bill_McBride]

It's a great second shot , but I think number 9 is better!

Archie, is there a better run of par 4 holes ANYWHERE than 8, 9 and 10?   And #11 would be a top notch hole anywhere else but doesn't get a glance after those three.

To answer Pat's original questions, yes it's a world class par 4, one of the greatest in the world.

The shot across the cove to the green is terrifying indeed, but so is the chip back down the green after the "safety play" of over clubbing proves to be a mistake!    It's the apocryphal "stopping the ball on the hood of your car" shot.

[Terry Lavin]

It might be the greatest "minimalist" holes ever built on the most "maximalist" land ever.  Phenomenal golf hole.

[William_G]

Am I the only one that thinks the 8th is a hole that is more photogenic than good?

Tee Shot: Forced lay-up; nothing more than long-iron or hybrid for many.

Mark - How far do you hit your long-iron / hybrid?

The mistake that some make is trying to stay on the right side of the fairway with their tee shot where the correct play is to hit as much club as you want down the left side, even into the rough.  The fairways ends 280 yards off the tee (from the back tee box) leaving only 165 to the green with very little of the cove to carry.

Correct!

The tee shot is slightly uphill and blind as you aim at a chimney in the distance, knowing that right is bad/wet.

Laying up with your tee shot makes your second more difficult especially if its windy.

It's a great hole, no doubt!

[Bob_Huntley]

Re-read Mike Benham's post.....it is the best way to play the hole and also averts a vertigo attack.

Bob

[Kalen Braley]

I've never played it...but is laying up with the 2nd shot on this hole to be safw, akin to laying up on 16 at CPC?

When I finally get my Pebble experience, I couldn't imagine not going for it, even if it was a 220+ yard carry to the green with the 2nd shot.

[John Mayhugh]

Am I the only one that thinks the 8th is a hole that is more photogenic than good?

Tee Shot: Forced lay-up; nothing more than long-iron or hybrid for many.

Mark - How far do you hit your long-iron / hybrid?

The mistake that some make is trying to stay on the right side of the fairway with their tee shot where the correct play is to hit as much club as you want down the left side, even into the rough.  The fairways ends 280 yards off the tee (from the back tee box) leaving only 165 to the green with very little of the cove to carry.

Exactly. It's certainly not a one-dimensional tee shot.  You cannot just swing away with driver and have no fear of consequences, but you also have the option to take more or less club depending on the line chosen.  Taking more club up the left side makes plenty of since - just don't miss it right.  I think the tee shot there is really interesting.

[George Pazin]

It's a great second shot , but I think number 9 is better!

Archie, is there a better run of par 4 holes ANYWHERE than 8, 9 and 10?

Oakmont 1,2 3...

It's actually pretty tough to find strings of 3 great par 4s, at least among the great courses (for me, at least, I don't have the breadth of experience of many on here). Augusta 9.10.11 is pretty great (even better before they screwed with 11...). Maybe something at PV or Shinney?

[Mike Hendren]

Only a fool would disagree with Messrs. Benham and Huntley, so here goes:

Applying a post-it note as a compass to the aerial posted, it appears one gains little if any proximity to the green by going left off the tee and brings the lateral nature of the cove into play as well.  Poor risk/reward proposition, particularly since the angle of approach is not decidedly better unless one is good enough to access a back-right pin.  Even if talented enough, why bother with that since you are approaching the smallest green on the golf course, an often overlooked element of the golf hole.   

The tiny nature of the green coupled with the lay-up off the tee yields little if any strategy.  Then again, I doubt many would argue that this is a strategic golf hole.  It's penal, period.  Now, a penal hole draped across a stunning landscape hard against a spectacular seascape is tough to beat - a beautiful half-par hole. 

Bottom line for me is that it is indeed a great hole, but not for the reasons the cognoscenti here often posit.

Bogey

[Bill Brightly]

I have only played the hole a few times, but isn't there a large slope just left of the tee box that obscures the left half of the hole? I seem to recall that the alignment of the tee box points you at the safe lay up, which is too far back to really go at the green. Isn't the best line much further left of what you can "see"?

[Stewart Naugler]

I played pebble dozens of times prior to the 2010 Open and I'd have to say that #8 is one of the greatest par 4's in all of golf. I had a unique perspective because I got to play it, prepare it, and watch pro's play it in U.S. Open conditions. The best strategy is to play your tee shot down the far left side but not in the rough. Driving your ball in the rough during the Open would have made for an impossible 2nd shot. With that said, that left side definitely gives you the best angle of attack. Not that you can attack that green!

Several pro's told me they purposely played short of the green.

The Sunday before tournament week I had the privilege to walk all 18 holes with Johnny Miller and his son. This is them on #8 green putting to every possible hole location. We spent over 30 minutes putting on this green and listening to Johnny tell stories of past championships. It's not just the 2nd shot that makes this hole special.

[Howard Riefs]

In all my years going to golf tournaments, I can't remember another hole where I specifically wanted to sit at the location where players hit their approach shot.

So, there we sat on the grass, perfectly positioned at the narrow bend of the hole during the 2nd round of the 2010 US Open.  For an hour that morning we watched most drives finish perfectly positioned, some too short, a few pushed right into the Pacific. Mickelson's drive memorably stopped a bit close to the edge, with the ball about 3 yards before the drop off.  He put his hand on his chest, and heavily exhaled in jest.

A memorable hole. I just hope to play it one day soon.

[Kalen Braley]

How much rough is there to stops ones ball if its running when it encounters the rough?  Seems like the short grass should go right up to within a yard of the edge to have more of a risk/reward element to the drive!! 

[Andrew Summerell]

So, let me get this right. We now love forced layup par 4’s with no strategy and bunkering that looks like it’s at your local $20 per round muni. As long as it’s beside some nice ocean cliffs we give it 2 thumbs up.

Seriously, there is not a ‘best’ par 4 in the world. Analysis of golf holes just doesn’t work that way. That’s the great thing with talking about GCA. It’s subjective. Obviously, a few people on this thread rate the 8th at Pebble Beach as their favourite, as for me, it wouldn’t make my top 10. It’s still a fine hole though.

[Bill Brightly]

Andrew, you are wrong to simply dismiss the tee shot as a forced layup. If the cliff ran perpendicular to the tee, you might be right. But the ANGLE of the hazard is what makes the hole strategic.

I can lay back with a rescue and be safe, but have little chance of hitting the green. Or I can hit a hard draw with 3 wood (or driver) to get 30 yards closer for my approach. That is a HUGE difference. Of course, the longer I hit it, the less room I have to work with, and I am naturally less accurate with a longer club. If that is not strategic, I don't know what is...

[Greg Tallman]

So many in this crowd are dismissive based on what they have heard or read before.

A hole with a fairway running out at 280 and thus allowing some kind of metal club, perhaps even driver while offering the option of every other club in the bag down to perhaps even a 5 iron forcing the golfer to make a decision from the tee in order to set themslef up for one of the great shots in the game... bad hole? Please.

[Stewart Naugler]

The tee shot on #8 is far from a layup. I'm a very good player and I'm always nervous on that tee box. If you don't hit the fairway with a fairly long shot, there's no way you're making an easy par. It's one of the most demanding holes in golf under tournament conditions.

[Anthony Gray]

When evaluating a hole architecturally you simply cannot dismiss the setting. We are not blind golfers. Architect is form and function.

 Anthony

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

There is no question in my mind it is one of the great par 4's in golf. It was better in a different time but still incredible.  The second shot and green complex challege the best who ever played the game every time.

[Matthew Rose]

Was the hole always a forced lay-up? I'm guessing perhaps technology has made it so.

From the aerial, it doesn't appear there is any room to lengthen the hole. Maybe a really tiny tee behind #7 green right on the edge but I'm not sure how practical that is.

[Andrew Summerell]

I get the sense that people read the first two lines of my post without reading the rest.

Bill (Brightly), the first part of my post was in jest based on what a few others had posted. I have hit driver up the left quite safely in the past, but also taken less club for safety reasons. I actually believe pretty much all reasonably designed holes the world over have some sort of strategy whether created through width or length or both.

Greg (Tallman), I don’t think any discerning person would think it a bad hole. The question in the initial post was whether it was one of the greatest holes or par 4’s, I assume ever in the entire world. That category is limited to only a few holes for me and the 8th at Pebble Beach is not one of them. But like I said, I still think it’s a fine hole.


I just fine the hyperbole on the site amusing. It always has to be the greatest or the worst or the most of something. I don’t see golf courses that way. The 8th is an excellent hole that fits in well with the holes either side and the entire course. Plus, it’s always nice to play golf beside the ocean. There are some people that are very passionate about Pebble Beach and that is fine (as I have found out over the years after receiving interesting personal messages when I have criticised aspects of the course), but architectural appreciation is subjective. If people don’t like holes or courses I love that’s all right. I can live with that. (Of course, I never speak to them again and I tell people how awful they are behind their back) 

[Jeff_Brauer]

I fall in the "second is thrilling" but overall, there are some flaws to the hole camp.

[Joe Bentham]

almost everybody who has complained that the tee shot is a forced layup could comfortably hit driver there all day.

[Tim Bert]

A beautiful hole, a thrilling hole, a unique hole, and a great hole. At the same time, it doesn't rank amongst my favorite par 4s in golf. I certainly understand how many could feel it is the greatest but I don't share the opinion.

[ChipOat]

#8 at PB, #15 at PV and #18 at Merion are the most satisfying birdies of my otherwise-mediocre golf career.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A beautiful hole, a thrilling hole, a unique hole, and a great hole. At the same time, it doesn't rank amongst my favorite par 4s in golf. I certainly understand how many could feel it is the greatest but I don't share the opinion.

Tim,

What par 4's in the U.S. Would you favor above it ?

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