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Anthony Gray

Ice Plant
« on: January 26, 2012, 08:21:47 PM »


  What courses feature it nicely? Is the stuff at Diamante ice plant?

  Anthony


David_Tepper

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 09:08:24 PM »
There is no such thing as featuring ice plant "nicely." Playing out of it makes heather look like bent grass. There used be patches of it in play on some of the NLE holes on the Ocean Course at the Olympic Club. I have also seen it at Spyglass and on the back nine at Pacific Grove.

I believe ice plant, eucalyptus trees and kikuyu grass all came to California from Australia and are not native to North America. If I am mistaken about that, I am sure someone will correct me.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 09:16:24 PM by David_Tepper »

Joey Chase

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 09:15:09 PM »
It is found throughout Oitavos Dunes, Troia, and several other courses in Portugal, and is a near impossible recovery there as well!

Mac Plumart

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 09:26:32 PM »
Joey...

You mention this plant is all over Oitavos Dunes.  Could you educate me and tell me the best picture from Oitavos website to get an idea of what this plant looks like?

http://www.oitavosdunes.com/gallery.php

Thanks.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

David_Tepper

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 09:38:47 PM »
Mac P. -

Here is a link to an array of photos of ice plant. While many of the photos show the plant flowering, the flowers only last for just a very short time. Ice plant is a succulent.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ice+plant&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=yjc&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Sg0iT8CwPNK60AHR-6jtCA&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1067&bih=539

DT

Bart Bradley

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 09:42:22 PM »
My experience with Ice Plant at Spyglass....including a picture of the stuff...

http://www.bradleygolftravel.blogspot.com/2011/06/dreaded-ice-plant-incidentand.html

Mac Plumart

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 09:50:22 PM »
Thanks guys!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Joey Chase

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 09:52:36 PM »
Joey...

You mention this plant is all over Oitavos Dunes.  Could you educate me and tell me the best picture from Oitavos website to get an idea of what this plant looks like?

http://www.oitavosdunes.com/gallery.php

Thanks.

Mac,
Sorry to say I didn't see it in any of the pics on their site.  I must've ventured too far off course with some of the wayward tee shots!

Mac Plumart

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 09:54:39 PM »
 :)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2012, 12:53:59 AM »
David, while i'm no expert, I was under the impression that Ice plant was from Africa (Kikuyu too), and, it was introduced to the Monterey Peninsula by the U.S. Army, to stabilize the dunes at Fort Ord.

The former Shore course at MPCC use to feature the plant "nicely". If you call long swaths bordering the entire length of several fairways, nice.

There's several types of the plant. In the early spring, one strain, flowers and can turn a whole block purple, on the coast in Pacific Grove. It's beautiful.

Since I moved away, I have noticed a concerted effort to eradicate the stuff. It's gone from a lot of places it was rampant. i.e. In Barts Picture of what I think is the 4th at Spy, that entire sandscape was covered with the stuff. Not the spotty look that is photoed.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Brett Hochstein

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 02:33:25 AM »
To piggyback what Adam said, a sign at Fort Funston, which is right next to the Olympic Club's par 3 course, talks about the invasiveness of ice plant and its origins from South Africa.  They are making efforts there to restore some areas to native vegetation, which has a lot more variety but is mostly bushy. 
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Alfonso Erhardt

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 08:39:33 AM »
The rough of El Saler has plenty of ice plant (called Uņas de Gato in Spain, which translates as cat nails) on holes closer to the sea.

Can't remember it in Oitavos.




Jason Connor

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 11:23:48 AM »
Pacific Grove on the Monterey Peninsula certainly features it.

One of the locals warned me about it, and how you can either break your club or your wrist trying to thrash out of it.

I also heard the same story as Adam: that it was brought here to help stave off erosion. And it just took over.

It's pretty.  But not good for golf.

We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

John Kirk

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 11:59:52 AM »
Ice plant recovery plan:

1.  Open blade of wedge slightly.
2.  Aim 1 inch behind ball; take a full swing.
3.  Move forward one step.
4.  Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.


JMEvensky

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 12:35:21 PM »
Ice plant recovery plan:

1.  Open blade of wedge slightly.
2.  Aim 1 inch behind ball; take a full swing.
3.  Move forward one step.
4.  Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.



Does the broken wrist come before or after Step 2?

Kalen Braley

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 02:57:45 PM »
Wiki puts it from Africa as well...

....although there are many versions of iceplant as its a fairly large family. This picture looks like the type you see in California all over the place.



For me, ball in ice plant almost always meant "unplayable lie"...unless it was sitting right on top and you could pick it out clean.

John Kirk

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 03:14:56 PM »
Ice plant recovery plan:

1.  Open blade of wedge slightly.
2.  Aim 1 inch behind ball; take a full swing.
3.  Move forward one step.
4.  Repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.



Does the broken wrist come before or after Step 2?


I don't know.  The only time I remember playing from the stuff was back in the eighties, when I was too young to break a wrist.  3rd hole at Spyglass Hill.

Actually, I thought ice plant was a pretty soft succulent that you just splashed your way through.  Been a while, though.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 04:17:36 PM »
Regarding the ice plant and Oitavos Dunes, I asked Drew Rogers about it and this was his response.

"there certainly is ice plant at Oitavos Dunes....is still exists, but only marginally from what we found on site at inception.  We have done our best to eradicate and control it...limiting it to out of play areas.  Ice plant will do a good job of stabilizing unstable dunes and slopes...and it has a pretty flower as well.  The problems occur when the plants encroaches into play and comes into contact with maintained turf - then it becomes a pretty severe playability issue.  At Oitavos, it is controlled by hand, mostly - and it's a laborious effort.  Most of the ice plant there is concentrated to holes 9, 10, 11 and 12 (mainly in a concentrated spot behind #10 tee).... and there may be a few isolated spots throughout, but its not in play.  If your fellow posters don't recall seeing it, that's because we've been able to control it with some success.  And it's certainly not visible in any photos in their gallery, or any from my library for that matter.
If you are at Oitavos and want to appreciate ice plant without being on a golf course....I might suggest a scenic drive up the coast a few miles to Cabo da Roca...it is the rocky bluff that sticks out behind #14 green in the distance...it is the westernmost point in Continental Europe... and upon that point there are severe slopes down to the water... all covered with "beautiful" ice plant - and a cool lighthouse there as well."

Pretty good stuff regarding the topic, I think.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

William_G

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 05:38:22 PM »
The Monterey area is where I've seen most iceplant.

Almost seems to have been used to stabilize dunes, but I could be wrong, of course.

You can not play a golf shot out of ice plant........

thanks
It's all about the golf!

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2012, 07:54:25 PM »
William,

You most certainly CAN play a shot out of ice plant. As Spyglass Hill had significant amounts of it during the years I caddied there, figuring out the play from it was required. John has step one close, but you want the SANDWEDGE face almost totally wide open. Step two is a stiff-wristed, pronounced forward press with the club hovering 4-5 inches BEHIND the ball. Take a three-quarter back swing and slice through that ice plant with EVERYTHING you have!

The force of the heavy club, as the WIDE OPEN club face slices UNDER the ice plant, but not digging into the rootbase or ground, explodes the ball up and out of the verdant soup. The forward press usually always prevents the club from releasing too early and robbing momentum.

Several years back I was caddying in the AT&T for Wayne Watts, chief legal counsel for the host company, and his second shot on Hole #2 at the Glass found the heavy ice-plant, short left, about 20 yards from the green. Using the very method described previously he executed a beautiful recovery to about 12 feet from the pin...to the total amazement of the pros and other caddies watching there. One of the tour caddies blurted out, "ONLY a local caddie could have possibly known how to play that shot!" How true. I've pulled that type of shot off many times, as have dozens of other players I and other PB caddies squired around those courses on the Peninsula.

Personally, I liked the ice-plant, though it was a bear to recover from and if it was really down...you just take your medicine and accept the penalty and drop. The extensive removal has certainly made Spy play easier, particularly those early holes. From a playability standpoint, the resulting sandy wastes are fairer, but that ice-plant hazard was a unique feature there that is/was kind of cool.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 09:01:42 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

John Kirk

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2012, 11:47:03 PM »
Shit.  I almost said you needed to have the blade wide open.  Sure, sure.

Kris, thanks for that anecdote.  Hilarious.  Ice plant.

Mike_Cocking

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Re: Ice Plant
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2012, 11:53:15 PM »
In Australia its commonly referred to as "Pig Face".  We planted quite a bit of it at The Lakes in Sydney as part of the renovation we did there a few years back.  Its indigenous to many parts of Australia, including sydney, the sand belt and mornington peninsula.