[Emile Bonfiglio]

Are there any out there that stick out to you? I think of this absolute goat track called Sandelie that has a great short hole. The hole plays about 95 yards, the green has a false front and false back and drops about 10 feet from front to back, you really have about 6 yards to work with on a single tier. If you're long, you're dead, short is no gimmie either. Its not a "Great" hole from a GCA standpoint but sure is fun to play.

[Garland Bayley]

So you like #4. Isn't the course maintained too soft for #4 to be as good as it could be?

[Garland Bayley]

BTW The cognoscente would inform you the terminology is goat pasture (or hill) and dog track.

[Bill_McBride]

BTW The cognoscente would inform you the terminology is goat pasture (or hill) and dog track.

"Goat track" got the message across.

A "dog track" involves greyhounds and a mechanical rabbit, nothing to do with golf.   

[Anthony Gray]

  The obvious choice is PB 7. The setting is hard to beat.

 Anthony

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Garland-

Too many funny things there, goat track seems like the perfect hybrid to me.  I can't tell you how many times I've plugged the "face" of that green. I guess that will happen when you build a green into the side of a ravine. Yes it plays too soft, otherwise it could be a great hole.

My least favorite hole is #5, put a lot of balls out in that parsley field trying to draw one around that giant fir in the middle of the fairway.

[Terry Lavin]

BTW The cognoscente would inform you the terminology is goat pasture (or hill) and dog track.

I think the cognoscenti would know how to spell it, since they're so "in the know".   

[Chris DeNigris]

I haven't played too many under 100 but I'll nominate the 14th at Doonbeg.

I just played it a couple of months ago and I thought it was very cool. Played from the 86yd tees and had to crunch an 8 iron to get there. A little breezy that day

[Michael Essig]

BTW The cognoscente would inform you the terminology is goat pasture (or hill) and dog track.

"Goat track" got the message across.

A "dog track" involves greyhounds and a mechanical rabbit, nothing to do with golf.   

In my neighborhood, it should be "racoon trail."     And getting back to golf. . . are there any short holes that are interesting without the wind element?  The beauty of PB #7 is that you never know what club you have to hit because of the wind, and starting it out over the Pacific to find the green makes even the most skilled player nervous; pick too much club and hit it a little too low and you can knock it into the Pacific over the back.  It really is a great hole. 

[Michael Essig]

There was a string a few months ago about short holes, but most were on courses I have never played nor seen.  I assume they are all penal, like #7, if you miss them. 

[J_ Crisham]

The 15th at LACC is the hardest I have ever played. Played at 87 yds to the stick last Tuesday. One par , three doubles in our group. No water, just a devilishly small green with some nasty bunkering. Great hole. Stretches out to 125 or so. The front right pin is a treacherous one!

[Michael Essig]

Played LACC North 25 years ago, don't remember the hole if it was on the North, but three doubles is testament to its difficulty (even if you were partnered with marginally skilled players).  What surrounds the hole?

[Jim_Kennedy]

BTW The cognoscente would inform you the terminology is goat pasture (or hill) and dog track.

I was a 13 year old (47 years ago) caddie when I first heard the term "Goat Track" used to describe one of the local courses. I see the term has made it's way into the Urban Dictionary.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goat%20track


How about the 10th at Pacific Grove?  

[Garland Bayley]

...

How about the 10th at Pacific Grove?  

If you begin to let in holes over 100 yards, then you begin to get a flood of holes like the Postage Stamp.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Garland,
It is 97 yards to 109 yards long.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,
It is 97 yards to 109 yards long.

So have you measured the front of the Postage Stamp tee box to determine if it is under 100 yards too?
Or under 100 yards to a front pin?

I'm sure you get my point. Scorecard says 105 for red tees at Pacific Grove. You and I probably wouldn't be playing from the reds very often.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Hole #10, Red Tee, 97 yards

[Bill_McBride]

BTW The cognoscente would inform you the terminology is goat pasture (or hill) and dog track.

I was a 13 year old (47 years ago) caddie when I first heard the term "Goat Track" used to describe one of the local courses. I see the term has made it's way into the Urban Dictionary.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goat%20track

In his hysterical memoir, "Those Dogged Victims of Inexorable Fate," Dan Jenkins refers to the burnt out hardpan muni of his Fort Worth youth as "Goat Hills."   Man that is a funny book!

[Ronald Montesano]

This is officially derailed.

#7 at Pebble plays 107 yards from its men's tee.

the hole at Pacific Grove is clearly over 100 yards.

Any number of holes will play at less than 100 yards from the forward tees.

What about that two or twenty hole at Engineers?

[Tom_Doak]

I was a 13 year old (47 years ago) caddie when I first heard the term "Goat Track" used to describe one of the local courses. I see the term has made it's way into the Urban Dictionary.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goat%20track
  

Sorry to keep the thread jack going, but I thought you would all be interested to know that the Dye family referred to courses as "a goat ranch," since one of Pete's very first courses was laid out on a site that was, in fact, a goat ranch before they turned it into a golf course.

It was a term of endearment for the Dyes, as in, "This is some goat ranch."

I doubt this is actually the origin of the term, but it goes back to the late 1950's, anyway.

[Tom_Doak]

As for par-3 holes under 100 yards, I have seen VERY few such holes on regulation 18-hole courses.  I think I've seen 1100 courses overall, and can only remember a handful that were really less than 100 yards from the back tee.

George Thomas had one at La Cumbre that he illustrated in his book, but it's gone now.

I am not positive it was under 100 yards from all the way back, but the one that stands out the most in my memory is the 17th hole at Conwy GC in Wales.  The previous hole is a very long par-3, and then the 17th is very very short [though not easy].  The official names of the two holes on the scorecard are, for the long hole, "O.L."  and then for the shortie, "L.O."

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,

We played the Wales Open four years ago and it looked like there were new holes at both 16 and 17. Both were par fours.
Either one would qualify as the narrowest hole I have ever played - and both sides of both were lined with unplayable lies.

[Matthew Rose]

Does it have to be sub-100 from the back tee, or does a middle tee qualify?

I think I've only played one hole on a regulation course which was under 100 from the tips - #5 at Fossil Trace in Colorado.

The course I grew up playing, Janesville Riverside in Wisconsin, had a 12th hole which was 108 from the blues but 96 from the whites, with a large tree in between the tee and green. Was actually a tougher shot from the white tee.

[Bill_McBride]

George Thomas had one at La Cumbre that he illustrated in his book, but it's gone now.

I assume that was the original 17th, across the barranca after the great 16th with the barranca also in front.  I played college golf at La Cumbre in 1961-62 and the old 17th was already gone.

The best really short par 3 I remember is the 3rd on the very sporty 9-holer at Glenbrook in Nevada, 85 yards across a huge bunker to a large green with Lake Tahoe lapping at the back of the green.   This was followed by a 225 yard par 3.   Very fun course.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

We played the Wales Open four years ago and it looked like there were new holes at both 16 and 17. Both were par fours.
Either one would qualify as the narrowest hole I have ever played - and both sides of both were lined with unplayable lies.

Mike:

You caused me a brief panic ... but, my bad.  The two par-3 holes are at North Wales GC at Llandudno, just around the bay from Conwy.  I couldn't remember for sure which of them it was, but shouldn't have posted before I looked it up in The Confidential Guide.

I could not imagine that anyone in Wales would be dumb enough to change the two best holes on their course in order to lengthen it.

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