Prarie Dunes KS - Why isn't there more discussion about the architecture there?

[Adam Clayman]

Too Much wind?

[Terry Lavin]

I think we could have a civil discussion on the merits/demerits of the Press Maxwell holes as compared to the Perry Maxwell holes.  I think everybody agrees that the original nine holes are superior to the next nine.  Which of the Press holes are viewed most favorably?  Least favorably?

I think #4 is a terrific hole, with an amazing greensite carved into the side of the dune.  The fairway bunkering makes it a demanding drive as well.  So I would view 4 as Press's best.

On the back nine, I think 12 could be a lot better if they did some tree removal.  As it stands now, it's only made more difficult by the goalpost trees, not more interesting or more fun.  So, I'd put that as my least favorite.  I think the Chute par three hole also suffers from the related tree issue, but the green is a bit of genius.

[John Kirk]

… and on the subject of losing balls ….

I played with three great players the second day. The one thing that struck me was their unwillingness to "accept" what was offered rather than "take" what they felt they should have. It cost each at least one ball. For most of the day I played them even because I was the one player willing to lay-up or chip on. There is plenty of room to play, unless of course you are taking aggressive lines that bring the gunch into play.

Or you're a pretty strong fellow, and a bad swing causes a ball to fly >35 yards off line.


Terry,

I happen to like the goal posts on #12 a LOT.  I enjoy their unique challenge, not just for your round at Prairie Dunes, but for golf almost anywhere.  If you miss by ten or more yards, you are manufacturing something to get around the trees, but can usually get it down close to the front of the green.  Of course, my up and down percentage at Prairie Dunes must be 10-20%.  That's one of the things about Prairie Dunes.  It's frustrating, since it looks like you should be able to get up and down more than you do. 

I like the par-3 4th hole fine, but it is very similar to the par-3 2nd hole.

Among the Press Maxwell holes, I like #11 and #12.  From the back tees, which at only 6700 yards I enjoy playing occasionally, the 13th is almost impossible off the tee for me.  #14 is nice, #15 is OK. #16 is not that memorable, except for that dog that's always running around back there.  #5 is fabulous, a hole that strongly encourages a long iron second shot, rather than a hybrid or fairway wood, which tend to spray the ball further offline.  I love a hole that compels me to hit 3-iron, not 5-wood.

[C. Squier]

I think 12 is a great risk reward hole. Driver off the tee, better hit it straight or your wedge is stymied. Hybrid off the tee and you can pretty much curve or hit your 2nd over the trees.

PD has the greatest set of greens this side of Pine Valley. Also, I've found over time that once you realize there IS a lot of driving room, the gunsch only catches really wild shots. Start steering the ball, you'll have problems.

Now that we have the lodges, we're one short course away from a perfect club....IMO of course.

[Doug Wright]

I finally played Prairie Dunes for the first time last fall and really enjoyed it. No question the course is very challenging, but I also found it quite playable. There was more width than I expected on many holes, and when I hit wayward shots into the native areas I'd say I found and could play it more than 50% of the time. I wouldn't say the golf course is "fun" in an Old Macdonald way, but it isn't penal and has some of the most outstanding greens anywhere--more like Pacific Dunes in challenge and playability. I thought there was a bit of sameness to the par threes (eg 4 and 15) but #10 is a really fine hole. The stretch of 5 through 12 is outstanding, and I almost could argue the same for 1 through 12. Although I'm not a fan of trees, and the trees on 12 would be annoying if they appeared more than once on a course, their uniqueness at Prairie Dunes makes them work just fine for me. I did not think the finishing stretch was as strong as 5 through 12. The par 5 17th green is great but it's not reachable for me and the first two shots were, frankly, pretty boring. I think I'll need to play 18 about 50 more times before I make a par--cannot get a tee shot in the fairway on that hole.

PS Ian Andrew's post above on this thread was really excellent--great analysis and a model for how we could describe golf courses (if we had Ian's depth of knowledge thereof...).

[David Kelly]

I did not think the finishing stretch was as strong as 5 through 12. The par 5 17th green is great but it's not reachable for me and the first two shots were, frankly, pretty boring. I think I'll need to play 18 about 50 more times before I make a par--cannot get a tee shot in the fairway on that hole.

Doug,

When you play there more often and play in different seasons you get different winds.  Generally during the summer the wind blows straight down hole #7 but it will shift when a storm front is coming in and also during the cold months.  The 7th is pretty easy pickings downwind but into a strong wind it isn't as much fun when you are hitting a mid-iron to that green. 

As for the 17th the wind is also a factor and when the wind is into the face of the golfer's on 7 then 17 is reachable in two.  During the last US Women's Open held at PD plenty of women went for the 17th green in two but those that missed the green on their second shot often left the hole with a bogey.  I also like the vanishing point fairway on the 17th.  It puts some pressure on the layup shot because with that green you do not want to be hitting your approach shot from the rough. 

[C. Squier]

I'll also say that PD has the BEST added longer tees you'll ever find. For example, the tees on 5, 16 and 17 were added later in life and all make each hole infinitely more challenging and memorable. I can't think of another course that had added tees AND made as many holes better than they were originally without screwing ou the routing.

Word is, new tees are being added as we speak on other holes. Can't wait to see them

[Craig Van Egmond]

C. Squier,

       Do  you know which holes are getting additional tees?

[David Kelly]

       Do  you know which holes are getting additional tees?

5, 11, & 14 getting the total yardage to almost 6900 yds.