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Jim Eder

Is it a location issue? Where people just haven't had the chance to play there? Or does Maxwell just not get as much credit as some of us believe? For one great place I rarely ever see any mention of it here. I am just wondering if I am missing something.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim, PD has been discussed to death in these halls. Granted, not as much recently. Suffice to say, PD is a great course with few draw backs. The club is a great club, with no drawbacks.

The most interesting aspect of PD is how Press was able to seamlessly intertwine the different nines. Personally, I want to get back and see how Dave Axland was able to create a dunescape behind the 7th green. Blocking all the activity near the clubhouse and other teeing grounds.

It truly is the first Sand Hills course.

Perhaps a search of pages in the 600's might yield some good stuff.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Adam,

Agreed on all counts, but Tom Doak reminded me that Crystal Downs might deserve as much credit as PD for being the "grandfather" of Sand Hills.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jim Eder

Adam,

Thanks.  I totally agree with you on the course and the club. Press did a very good job as well.  Amazing.  

Was nice to see Crystal Downs get a terrific write up on here recently.  Another amazing place.

Thanks Adam.



Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim:

I don't think a lot of people on the board have played it.  I have never heard a negative word about the place so it is not a lack of respect or interest.   I look forward to playing it, but don't know when that will be as it is hard to combine with other courses for a golf trip.  For instance, even though Sand Hills is remote, you can combine with Dismal River, The Prairie Club, Wild Horse and Ballyneal  -- so people on this board have played there.

Just my opinion.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Jim Eder

Michael,

Thanks.  I think you are right. That is what I was thinking as well. 

It really is worth the trip despite the difficulty in getting there and teh lack of add'l great courses.

Thanks.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim:

I don't think a lot of people on the board have played it.  I have never heard a negative word about the place so it is not a lack of respect or interest.   I look forward to playing it, but don't know when that will be as it is hard to combine with other courses for a golf trip.  For instance, even though Sand Hills is remote, you can combine with Dismal River, The Prairie Club, Wild Horse and Ballyneal  -- so people on this board have played there.

Just my opinion.

Michael,

I agree to some extent, but there are many very interesting looking courses in the 'same area' (within 4 hours) as Prairie Dunes.  PD is at the very top of courses I want to see, but in the area there are the other big names, Oak Tree and Southern Hills.  But, there are also a wide range of Maxwell designed courses (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49744.0.html) such as Jimmie Austin GC, Oklahama City, Twin Hills and Dornock Hills.  

Damn it, I'm drooling on my keyboard again!

Jim Eder

Mark,

I thought they flattened out the greens at Dornick Hills for the membership.  I have not played there but heard that it is a bit different from what Maxwell intended. I haven't played there because of this.  Maybe the info is incorrect?

Thanks for the add'l ideas down there.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim,
    Have you had any luck finding old threads? I started one probably 5-6 years ago asking what keeps Praire Dunes from being the #1 course (or something to that effect) and we had a pretty good discussion about it. So what keeps PD from being the best course in your opinion?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
The most interesting aspect of PD is how Press was able to seamlessly intertwine the different nines. Personally, I want to get back and see how Dave Axland was able to create a dunescape behind the 7th green. Blocking all the activity near the clubhouse and other teeing grounds.

Adam,

I saw pictures of Axland's work during construction and I thought to myself that it looked terrible, didn't fit and that they had f_____ up the 7th hole.

Then I went to PD after the work was finished and had grown in and I thought it looked great and was pretty seamlessly incorporated into the hole.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
David,
   Did Axland do any other work at PD at that time?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jim Eder

Ed,

Thank you for the threads.  I have no idea why I did not find these in my searches.  Much appreciated.

Jim

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim,
   No worries. The search function doesn't work very well unless you know of an old thread and can figure out the key words that will get you to it. Enjoy the reading.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
David,
   Did Axland do any other work at PD at that time?

At that time they also made some adjustments to the nearby teeing grounds of #1 and #8.  He is also doing some work as we speak including some new back tees.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks Kyle. What do you think of the work he has done?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks Kyle. What do you think of the work he has done?

I haven't seen any of the ongoing work, but the last batch was seamless.  The sand is a little discolored, but it wouldn't be noticed without looking for it and may weather to match.  Everything is natural to a point that it would be very difficult for a first time visitor to pick out what was done.  I have no doubt that the course is in very capable hands when it comes to adjustments like these.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Personally, I want to get back and see how Dave Axland was able to create a dunescape behind the 7th green. Blocking all the activity near the clubhouse and other teeing grounds.

Pic I found on The Itinerant Golfer blog:


John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim,

A good way of searching golfclubatlas threads is using google directly with the " *** site:***" command

Just type in the key words you are searching for, followed by the "site:" command, followed by the web site.
It gives a "short hand" version of the contents - but at least it works as opposed the the search window on our wonderful site

So try this

Prairie Dunes site:golfclubatlas.com

Jim Eder

John,

Thank you thank you thank you. This is extremely helpful!!!  Great insight!!  Totally finds it. Many thanks.

Jim

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim,

A good way of searching golfclubatlas threads is using google directly with the " *** site:***" command

Just type in the key words you are searching for, followed by the "site:" command, followed by the web site.
It gives a "short hand" version of the contents - but at least it works as opposed the the search window on our wonderful site

So try this

Prairie Dunes site:golfclubatlas.com

What a great tip.  that should be the subject of its own thread.  You must have other helpful suggestions for us morons who can't find anything on the search function...Please help!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Ian Andrew

There are few courses more surprising than Prairie Dunes. The hour long drive in from Wichita makes you wonder where you made the wrong turn. It’s only a quarter mile from the course where you see the first slight rise. There is not a single dune right up until you get to the golf course, and then there they are fifty feet high, a series of dunes reminiscent of the coastline in Scotland. It only makes sense once you realize that Kansas was once underwater and these are actually coastal dunes.

The next surprise is the landscape. Everything that is not golf course is either native prairie grass, perennial or thicket shrub. The club has long embraced the importance of this beautiful but disappearing landscape. They actively manage the native areas with controlled burns and other programs designed to help the native areas flourish in their natural state. They don’t fight nature instead they encourage it as a significant part of the course. The splashes of colour along with the beautiful golden grasses provide the club with a magnificent texture unique to only Prairie Dunes. When you combine that with the wonderful dunes and copses of ancient Cottonwood, you truly have something very special.

The routing does a wonderful job of playing through, along, up on to and off the main dune lines of the property. The driving areas are beautifully defined by the dune lines and it’s probably one of the best driving courses I have had the pleasure of playing. The green sites are well mixed with just as many set down inside natural valleys between the dunes as there are set up on plateaus up in the dunes.

Perry Maxwell in my estimation was the greatest designer of greens the game has seen. His work at places like Pine Valley and Augusta (seven of the existing greens) has no peer. The greens at Prairie Dunes are even more impressive. The mixture of exceptional interior contouring, false fronts, side droops and internal ridges has developed a set of greens where certain pins require you to play from particular locations on the fairway. I was lucky enough to experience multiple plays in changing winds with different pins and saw how placement dictated position back in the fairway.

The bunkers are the focal point for many. The integration of native grasses, the inclusion of yucca plants and the raw torn out appearance is very reminiscent of the pictures of the earliest bunkers from the book British Links. Some of this is actually recent work well intigrated into the surroundings. I found each bunker had character, each one blended into the surroundings perfectly and all of them did a wonderful job of adding some architectural and visual accents to the course. The wonderful part of the bunkering is that it reinforces the strategy created by the routing often by sitting to the sides and collecting the mistakes or aggressive play rather than imposing as the singular strategy of the hole. For this reason the course is eminently playable and fair, in fact a running shot often is a good solution, but because of the green sites and internal green contour the course remains tough as nails at the same time.

As we headed out of the parking lot I stole one last glance over my shoulder at that magnificent golf course and thought to myself I should join. We rolled a quarter mile down the road and the dunes were gone and all I saw was the flattest land you can imagine. I would have had a long face, except I could see every hole and every bunker of that golf course as fresh as if I was standing on the fairways and tees again.

Prairie Dunes met all my very high expectations ad often in cases such as the greens, exceeded them. I see it as one of the Dozen Best Courses in the World.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ian,

Great, evocative commentary.  Did you profile the course in your blog?  That would be an awesome post...
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've played it several times.  Sensational golf course and club.  My one criticism is its difficulty, and the percentage of lost balls in the native "gunch".  A little too hard, too demoralizing for me.  I'd rate it a 9 on the adopted 10 point Doak scale.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great post Ian.  You truly nailed the essence of PD.

JK, I often feel the same way. I am always surprised when the subject of hardest courses comes up and PD isn't in the conversation. It should be. I have seen over a hundred rounds of scratch players there and nary a single round has been under par. But the challenge is part of the allure to me as well.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Fantastic post Ian.  Prairie Dunes is a tremendous course.  The routing through the dunes, natural setting, variety of holes, stunning bunkering and a set of greens as good as any I have seen all scream for consideration with the best courses in the world.  But I also share John's criticism.  The gunch is in play on virtually every shot.  And unlike other courses of similar ilk, it is entirely unplayable.  If you hit your ball in the gunch, it is lost.  There is no reason to bother looking for it.  With windy conditions being the norm, you can play very well and still lose a half dozen balls per round.  For that reason alone, I place Prairie Dunes a shade below the best courses I have played.  If the gunch were thinned just enough to offer some minimal chance of the occasional recovery, I would gladly bump it up to that class. 

FYI, here are pics from last summer if anyone is interested... http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157627018321545/