Which top 5 is better?

[Anthony Gray]

  Scotland..England..Northern Ireland..Ireland

[Jackson C]

It's between Scotland and England - Northern Island has two biggies but not the strength in depth. Nor does Ireland.

Scotland has: St Andrews, Turnberry and Muirfield. The last two are likely Dornoch and Carnastie??

England has: George's, Birkdale and Sunningdale. The last two are debatable: probably Woodhall and either Lytham or Hoylake.

In top 5, Scotalnd wins, in top 20, England wins hands down. The other countries arent in the picture for strength in depth.

For the best golf across a large spread, I think England is the best country in the world.

I am not so sure Brian.
You may have to get to 30 before that bears out.

By my count, the 15-20 in Scotland could include:
Renaissance
Narin
Brora
Prestwick
Crail
Loch Lomond
Gleneagles

May be a preference on my part, but that ain't too shabby.

[Tommy Williamsen]

What sets England apart from the rest is the quality and number of great inland courses. Scotland wins if only Links courses are
counted. Otherwise it is England.

[Sam Morrow]

Does Wales have any leg to stand on in this debate?

[Mark Chaplin]

Sam - no

Brian - your top 5 instantly shows why England is best due to it's inland strength. I'd take Ganton over Lytham and Hoylake. That would give you two links, two heaths and an inland links!

[Tony_Muldoon]

I'll take

Portrush; Lahinch; Ballbunion (tbc): Portmarnock and RCD

We were asked for 5, an arbitrary no, and that's the strongest hand I see.


(Anthony why not split the mach larger England into two or 3 areas?)

[Mark Chaplin]

Tony if your going to combine Ireland and Northern Ireland you may as well combine Wales and Scotland to add in Royal Porthcawl.

[Mark Pearce]

Ganton is clearly top 5 in England.  For me it's superior to Woodhall, Lytham and Hoylake.

Jackson, what are your 6-10 in Scotlandand which 5 English courses do you think they are up again?  Frankly Scotland is struggling outside to top 5.  Not because its 6-20 are week but because of the strength of England's.  Which English courses have you played?

[Mark Chaplin]

Brian IMVHO Sunny New beats the Old hands down. 3 & 9 are just too weak as short par 4s, I'm a lover of great short 4s and 11 Old is a great example but you cannot be a world class course with two weak holes. The Old has the history hence the rankings.

Make it 4 links and an inland course and where does Ireland go? At least Scotland has Gleneagles Kings and Loch Lomond as top class inland courses of the highest order.

[Mark Pearce]

Brian,

Sunningdale is a big hole in my CV and needs to be filled.  But £280 for both courses?  That's more than 3x a day at Ganton and more than 5x a day at Silloth!

[Sean_A]

Well, first you have to have a top 5.

ENGLAND:
1. St Enodoc
1. Sandwich
7. Rye
10. Deal
10. St Georges Hill

IRELAND (I count as one country because of same union):  
1. Ballybunion
6. Lahinch
7. Co Down
10. The Island
10. Enniscrone

SCOTLAND:
1. Prestwick
1. TOC
7. NB
10. Aberdeen
15. Dornoch

WALES: Pennard, Southerndown, Tenby, Aberdovey & Porthcawl

15. Porthcawl
17. Pennard
17. Southerndown
19. Tenby
19. Aberdovey

By my crude reckoining Ireland comes out on top, England second and Scotland third, but the three are about equal.  

Given that all the courses are plenty good enough for me, the more interesting thing is I don't think any list wins in terms of where I would choose to play.  They are all about equal.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Scotland has the best five top 5 by the popular opinions:
Scotland has Turnberry, TOC, Muirfield, Carnoustie and Loch Lomond which relates to 1 4 5 6 and 9 in Golf Worlds ratings.
Ireland has RCD, Portrush, Waterville, Ballybunion and Portmarnock which relates to 2, 7, 13, 14 and 18
England has Birkdale, Woodhall Spa, Sunningdale, Hoylake and RSG which relates to 3, 8, 10, 15 and 16
Wales is just nowhere near
Scotland has TOC, Turnberry, Muirfield, Gleneagles, Carnoustie, which relates to 1,3,4,7 and 10 in Golf Monthly ratings.
Those same sort of indexes are mirrorred with the other UK magazines and listings too.

[Melvyn Morrow]

1)   Fife
2)   East Lothian
3)   Ayrshire
4)   Ross & Cromarty
5)   Perthshire

Followed by Moray, Angus, Nairnshire, Aberdeenshire and a host of many, many more.

Now what many will have to do is work out the courses from the above 5 shires of Scotland. 

Melvyn

[Melvyn Morrow]

Brian

Not bad, but I was hoping to see 5 courses from each Shire, not just one, thats just toooooooo easy.

Melvyn

[Melvyn Morrow]

Delete

[Jackson C]

Ganton is clearly top 5 in England.  For me it's superior to Woodhall, Lytham and Hoylake.

Jackson, what are your 6-10 in Scotlandand which 5 English courses do you think they are up again?  Frankly Scotland is struggling outside to top 5.  Not because its 6-20 are week but because of the strength of England's.  Which English courses have you played?

Hi Mark,

I have not played in England yet.  Read about it and desire to but not yet.
I have played in Scotland, and thus far my preference is for links courses.

Reading Brian's first post got me to thinking what may be the bottom 20 in Scotland.  How can he be so sure England's bottom of its top 20 is so far superior.  So I went through the list of top courses in Scotland in my mind, and then cross checked with the recent publication list of top courses in GB&I, and what do you know?  There are more than 20 Scottish courses on that list, and the bottom of the 20 are some very fine and attractive courses.

I would love to hear which English courses would be in the bottom of its 20, and how they would compare to the bottom of the Scottish 20.  Perhaps they are difficult to compare because we are basically talking preferences -- predominately heathland vs. links?

Thanks,
Jackson

[Bill Gayne]

I would go with Scotland for purposes of this question as to the best top five golf courses but my favorite golf place to visit is Ireland.

[Wade Schueneman]

Since Ireland/NE and Wales/England could each be toured together reasonablly (or as reasonably as Scotland, if remote courses like Dornoch are to be included), then I would consider the following possibilities

Ireland/NE

RCD
Lahinch
Ballybunion
Portrush
Carne

Scotland

TOC
Muirfield
Prestwick
The Machrie
Cruden Bay

England/Wales

RSG
St. Georges Hill
Addington
Pennard
St. Enodoc

I have not played a number of these courses (as I have never been to England), but I have tried to include what I suspect to be a balanced set of five experinces from each region.

For me, Ireland/NE is the clear winner, athough I imagine that any of these lists would make for, in the words of Mac Plumart, an EPIC golf trip!
 

[David_Tepper]

Treating the island of Ireland as one entity, I would agree with Sean A. that you will find the collection of the 5 best courses there, although I would disagree with his choice of which are in that group.

In no particular order, I would suggest County Down, Portrush, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Portmarnock.

[Mark Chaplin]

Wade 1/5 for England & Wales. RStG, Rye, West Sussex & any of the heaths would be fabulous and little travel. Pennard is lovely and quirky but you wouldn't pass Royal Porthcawl to get there on it's own.

Wales can be a difficult tour, Porthcawl to Harlech is 3 hours 49 mins and you'd be shocked if you ever went into 5th gear.

Are Machrie and Cruden Bay top 5 Scotland contenders?

[Gary Slatter]

in my books it is a 4-way tie, you canna go wrong, Wales is alone in 5th

[Mark Chaplin]

Interestingly IMO Wales is on par with Fife and East Lothian for holiday golf on wonderful second tier links courses.

[Mark Pearce]

Interestingly IMO Wales is on par with Fife and East Lothian for holiday golf on wonderful second tier links courses.

I think that Fife beats East Lothian hands down for 2nd tier courses.  East Lothian's strength is its first tier, Muirfield, NBWL, Renaissance.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mark it may well do but a Dunbar, Gullane 2&3, Luffness New and Kilspindie trip is pretty neat.

I wouldn't include Renaissance just as I wouldn't include Loch Lomond or Skibo in their areas as they are private no visitor clubs.

[Sean_A]

Treating the island of Ireland as one entity, I would agree with Sean A. that you will find the collection of the 5 best courses there, although I would disagree with his choice of which are in that group.

In no particular order, I would suggest County Down, Portrush, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Portmarnock.

David

I can understand the other four, but I have long wondered what makes Portmarnock one of the top 5.  It is an excellent course, but to me, not very distinguished.  If I had to compare it to another course, it would be Princes. 

Maybe its time that those in the know had a conversation about Portmarnock.  The course isn't talked about that much on here and maybe it should be.

Ciao