[DMoriarty]

I "may disagree?" Apparently not without being subjected to a rash of insults.

Diverse opinions are great, but is it too much to expect that "professional considerations" be couched in at least a vague familiarity with the facts at hand?  When they aren't then in my opinion  such "professional considerations" tend to come off as petty or as nothing but sour grapes.
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Joel,

I think the first bunker on the left in the last photo provides a good illustration of the flow from the fairways into the bunkers.  Thanks for posting these pics.

[Joel_Stewart]

I used a different photo for the 11th and changed it.  I wish I would have taken more photos because this course is just so damn handsome but I had a caddie and we were playing a money game so it was a little awkward.

I still stand by that this is one of the great restorations in American golf history.  What's even more important is the membership seems joyful about the results.

[DMoriarty]

What the 11th hole used to look like . . .


And Joel's pre-restoration photo from the first post. . .


And the new photo Joel posted on the first page. . .

[Josh Smith]

My opinion is that this hole is fantastic looking and very unique in golf.  Congrats to the club, crew, Gil and Geoff.  This looks like a superb job of paying homage to the great pedigree that existed at LACC, why would you consider doing anything else?

My guess is that while the transformation only clearly shows bunker work, regrassing and some tree removal, that was all that was needed to bring out this hole's greatness.  I am going to speculate that some drainage was added as well as possibly even some sand incorporated into the soil.

I love a par three that asks for a certain shot, and this looks like that type of hole. 

This may end up on an easel in my house someday soon.

Josh

[J_ Crisham]

Played here this afternoon and the 11th is tremendous-2 iron to center of green from205. Back tee is about 250yds-very tough shot. Although this is a challenging hole,number15 at 87yds was brutal. Played with the club champ who spun one in to a foot. The pin was front right with a total of 7 yds as a landing area-perhaps the most daunting shot at LACC imo.

[Alex Miller]

Just want to comment that I think the neatest thing about LACC is its proximity to Los Angeles (century city and downtown).

To me, the most recent photo is 10X cooler than the original as the skyline has grown tremendously in the last 80 years.


Joel/Jack,

I believe in the PDF it mentions a tee for 11 that makes the hole play close to 300. Just curious if either of you have seen it and what the angle is like from it. Also if 16 ever uses 11's tee box as the back tee as well?

[Mark McKeever]

Are they still planning on bringing that back right geen surface back into play?

[Joel_Stewart]

Are they still planning on bringing that back right geen surface back into play?

That's a good catch.  I asked someone who is in the know and they said, "the members didn't want to make it any bigger, they had already expanded it some in the back and a lot in the front". 

To me that looks pretty awesome back there and would be an amazing pin placement.

[Jon Spaulding]

Alex, the "Long Course" tee for #11 plays at 277 yards; the tee is located directly behind the left side of #15 green (when looking from #15 tee), adjacent to the pine trees.

Jack, I tend to agree with your comment on #15 pin position. The change in that pin is a 1.0-1.5 shot difference for most when compared to the normal rear pin location! Other tough pins are the far right on #5 and front right on #14.

Before the restoration, front right on #14 was the normal pin....now it seems to be more of a rare bird.

[Terry Lavin]

LACC holds a special place in my golfing heart.  I've played there a half dozen times over the years and absolutely loved it every time.  I love both courses, for different reasons, and also love the proximity to the Peninsula Hotel and the Beverly Hilton.  But most of all, I absolutely love the way they treat a guest.  Quite simply the best guest experiences I've ever had.  I'm trying to get out there in April to play the renovated course.  It probably has the best bones that I've ever seen for a renovation (Pinehurst #2 included), so I'm excited to see more than the bunker aesthetics.

[Jon Wiggett]

What the 11th hole used to look like . . .


And Joel's pre-restoration photo from the first post. . .


And the new photo Joel posted on the first page. . .

Looking at the latest version it looks very good. It is a shame that they have created such sharp definition outside the bunkers with the cutting lines. Takes something away from the aesthetics IMHO.

Jon

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Just want to comment that I think the neatest thing about LACC is its proximity to Los Angeles (century city and downtown).

To me, the most recent photo is 10X cooler than the original as the skyline has grown tremendously in the last 80 years.


Joel/Jack,

I believe in the PDF it mentions a tee for 11 that makes the hole play close to 300. Just curious if either of you have seen it and what the angle is like from it. Also if 16 ever uses 11's tee box as the back tee as well?

I've had the pleasure (?) of playing from the plates.  11 and 16 do play from about the same spot (if I recall correctly) as Jon Spaulding metioned... 260 to carry bunker... probably 240ish to carry to the left side pad... i laid up.  A couple other cool tees are #10... directly behind #9 green (maybe even a couple steps to left adding a few extra yds to tee shot) about 20-25+ yds longer than the back tees.  And #18 which is left of #1 green... can't remember what the carry is to the fwy. but suffice it to say i didn't make it.  It's a bear for the mere mortals but actually takes a most of the trouble (and some strategy) out of play (i.e. many fwy. bunkers were unreachable.  WTS i did play that day w/ a couple good players and all the strategy was in the right places for them.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Played LACC with the fellow who was the green chairman when the project was initiated.

The project was extensive, about 9 M.

Irrigation, regrassing, rerouting and redesigning/restoring, widening fairways considerably, extensive tree removal, a huge and marvelous project.

LACC North is fabulous, a joy to play.

Thomas's use of the unusual terrain is brilliant and Gil's work was exceptional.

It's fun and challenging.

The very generous fairways allow the higher handicap players to enjoy the course, yet for the better player, the optimum DZ is narrower.
A perfect example is # 13, with a huge fairway, but only about a 20 yard wide ideal DZ on the left side of the fairway as the fairway falls precipitously down to the right, leaving the golfer going right with a blind shot to a difficult uphill green well protected by bunkers.

It's the kind of course you can play every day.

And, the greens are neat, especially the tooth shaped greens with the narrow roots offering a difficult approach.

Par 3's are long and difficult, except # 15 which is short and difficult.

It's really been improved thanks to Gil's creative work.

I always liked Riviera, but I think that the new LACC is even better

[Sean Leary]

Played LACC with the fellow who was the green chairman when the project was initiated.

The project was extensive, about 9 M.

Irrigation, regrassing, rerouting and redesigning/restoring, widening fairways considerably, extensive tree removal, a huge and marvelous project.

LACC North is fabulous, a joy to play.

Thomas's use of the unusual terrain is brilliant and Gil's work was exceptional.

It's fun and challenging.

The very generous fairways allow the higher handicap players to enjoy the course, yet for the better player, the optimum DZ is narrower.
A perfect example is # 13, with a huge fairway, but only about a 20 yard wide ideal DZ on the left side of the fairway as the fairway falls precipitously down to the right, leaving the golfer going right with a blind shot to a difficult uphill green well protected by bunkers.

It's the kind of course you can play every day.

And, the greens are neat, especially the tooth shaped greens with the narrow roots offering a difficult approach.

Par 3's are long and difficult, except # 15 which is short and difficult.

It's really been improved thanks to Gil's creative work.

I always liked Riviera, but I think that the new LACC is even better

Couldn't agree more. I have never played a course that played as wide as LACC does, yet still be really difficult for a good player.

Seems like it is a Top 15ish golf course in the world now..

[Niall C]

David,

I have seen and played the course twice before, only seen it in pictures after.  But I see what I see despite you thinking I cannot.  And I chose merely to discuss the bunker style, never saying it was all that was involved in the remodel.  You can quit making your assine assumptions and swipes at me.  Or, call out everyone on this site who offers opinions based on the pictures posted here to even out the playing field. Thanks.

Jeff

Well said. This is a discussion board, and people post things for comment. Commenting on elements of design based on a photo is par for the course and whether anyone agrees with your comments or not shouldn't prevent you from posting your thoughts.

David

Your post of the old  photo of the eleventh hole is wonderful and one of the great things you bring to this site. I don't always agree with your thoughts or theories but I enjoy reading them and mostly enjoy our exchanges, at least to the point where you start personalising everything. I wish you didn't do that because I think you do yourself a disservice.

Joel

Very nice thread. I've never been to LACC but as per my first comment to Jeff, that aint going to stop me from commenting ! Notwithstanding the near identical reproduction of the bunkers as shown in David's photo of the 11th, I'm not convinced that this isn't a weak version of what MacK and Colt were aiming for with there bunkering. Too much of the modern style of thrilly edged bunkering appears to be turf laid over the face of the bunker and cut in a ragged edge fashion whereas I believe that Colt/MacK wanted their bunkers to look as though a chunk had been ripped out the face of the bunker.

Overall, I don't mind the look that much, I just don't think it looks any better than what it was before the recent renovation. I've also got to think that in the near future lacy edged bunkering will go the same way as hot pants and flared trousers.

Niall

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