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Michael George

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2012, 09:50:44 AM »

Brian:

You may be right.  I don't know RW so I couldn't tell you.  However, he works for Golf Digest not Travel & Leisure.  That seemed a lot more like a Travel & Leisure review than a Golf Digest review.

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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Tim Martin

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2012, 10:09:37 AM »
I just reread Whitten`s article and if you take the comments out about the drain stoppers ::) it doesn`t seem nearly as ornery. I have never been there before but I wonder what other peoples take on the caddies are.
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Tom Dunne

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2012, 10:14:53 AM »
Quote from: Michael George on January 15, 2012, 09:50:44 AM

Brian:

You may be right.  I don't know RW so I couldn't tell you.  However, he works for Golf Digest not Travel & Leisure.  That seemed a lot more like a Travel & Leisure review than a Golf Digest review.

Oh, really? Because "Travel & Leisure" reviews focused on sink-stoppers? Like this?

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/another-bandon-beauty

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Michael George

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2012, 10:17:14 AM »
Quote from: Tom Dunne on January 15, 2012, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: Michael George on January 15, 2012, 09:50:44 AM

Brian:

You may be right.  I don't know RW so I couldn't tell you.  However, he works for Golf Digest not Travel & Leisure.  That seemed a lot more like a Travel & Leisure review than a Golf Digest review.

Oh, really? Because "Travel & Leisure" reviews focused on sink-stoppers? Like this?

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/another-bandon-beauty



OK so Travel & Leisure has better reviews of Bandon than Golf Digest.  Once again, I was wrong.
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Mac Plumart

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2012, 10:40:31 AM »
Quote from: Michael George on January 15, 2012, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Tom Dunne on January 15, 2012, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: Michael George on January 15, 2012, 09:50:44 AM

Brian:

You may be right.  I don't know RW so I couldn't tell you.  However, he works for Golf Digest not Travel & Leisure.  That seemed a lot more like a Travel & Leisure review than a Golf Digest review.

Oh, really? Because "Travel & Leisure" reviews focused on sink-stoppers? Like this?

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/another-bandon-beauty



OK so Travel & Leisure has better reviews of Bandon than Golf Digest.  Once again, I was wrong.

Now that is funny...I don't care who you are.   :)

Is this (this thread) what happens when a sacred cow is not universally praised?  I think so.

Regardless, Bandon is great...but like I mentioned earlier, Mr. Whitten says he doesn't think it is the "best" golf resort...which GD has it ranked.  Is it perfect?  Of course not.  Is it close?  I think so. 

Do you guys like anything better (in terms of public resort style golf)?

But we could turn it to all golf resorts, get-aways, courses...public and private...if that might help us get a grip on what could be better at Bandon.  But then we need to consider the financial implications of making it "better". 

All thing being considered, it just might be the perfect mix of best and adequate features to make a great public golfing resort.
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Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2012, 10:45:36 AM »
Bandon is not the perfect golf resort like Cypress Point is the not perfect golf course...Each has minor flaws but there is no "place" really better than either for what they are....
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JC Jones

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2012, 10:46:47 AM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 15, 2012, 10:40:31 AM

Is this (this thread) what happens when a sacred cow is not universally praised?  I think so.


Yes.  There are some places on GCA.com that are just above any reproach and Bandon is one of them.
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Joel Zuckerman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2012, 10:48:16 AM »
Here's a point that hasn't been made in this thread:

This DG is pretty myopic.  I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of participants/posters, given the requisite endurance/physical ability, would go round and round at BD...36 holes at a minimum. Such was certainly the case for the vast majority at the KP event this past March.

But--I was very surprised to find out after speaking to several staffers while on property that this type of behavior is generally the exception, not the rule.  Many visitors to BD opt only for 18 holes per day, occasionally 27.  And therefore, while the amenity package has less weight for "guys like us," IE--those who play and play and play, it holds more weight for those who are only on course for 4 or maybe 5 hours, and have the rest of the day to fill as they see fit.

Just trying to present an opposing viewpoint..
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JNC Lyon

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2012, 10:51:15 AM »
Quote from: JC Jones on January 15, 2012, 10:46:47 AM
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 15, 2012, 10:40:31 AM

Is this (this thread) what happens when a sacred cow is not universally praised?  I think so.


Yes.  There are some places on GCA.com that are just above any reproach and Bandon is one of them.

It seems like the main reason folks here are criticizing Whitten is not because of his views on the golf course.  They are criticizing him because he bases his criticism on the lack of sink stoppers in the bathrooms.  Why a golf architecture critic cares about sink stoppers is beyond me.  He should call himself "travel editor" and be done with it.
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"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Tom Dunne

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2012, 10:55:10 AM »
Sorry to temporarily divert the thread and sorry, Michael, for getting snippy. Brian, T+L Golf went out of business in the spring of 2009 as part of a pan-American Express wave of layoffs that claimed roughly 10,000 jobs. That's why I got snippy--in its day, T+L Golf put an awful lot of work into its features, and I felt that comparing it to this blog post was unfair.

Nothing against Ron Whitten here. Magazine people are always looking for ways to provide critical commentary--something the Sean Arbles of this site regularly bemoan the lack of--but sometimes that manifests itself as an argument for the sake of having an argument. If this were a magazine piece, Ron likely would have interviewed Tom Doak about his routing decisions at Old Macdonald and built out his argument. The temporal demands of blogging militate against taking that extra effort. I'm sure both Ron and Matty G are both working on something for the print magazine right now that they take a lot more seriously than this--this was just for fun. And it is fun!

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Michael George

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2012, 11:02:07 AM »
Tom:

I was not trying to comment on the merits of Travel & Leisure or its reviews of golf destinations.  I was merely trying to say that Golf Digest should be tailored toward the avid golfer and be more concerned with the golf courses than accommodations, where Travel & Leisure probably had to concern itself with a broader traveler that would be concerned about all aspects of travel.

My sincere apologies if you took it the wrong way.   

BTW - great article that you linked.  I had not read that before and enjoyed it.
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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

JC Jones

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2012, 11:03:39 AM »
Quote from: JNC Lyon on January 15, 2012, 10:51:15 AM
Quote from: JC Jones on January 15, 2012, 10:46:47 AM
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 15, 2012, 10:40:31 AM

Is this (this thread) what happens when a sacred cow is not universally praised?  I think so.


Yes.  There are some places on GCA.com that are just above any reproach and Bandon is one of them.

It seems like the main reason folks here are criticizing Whitten is not because of his views on the golf course.  They are criticizing him because he bases his criticism on the lack of sink stoppers in the bathrooms.  Why a golf architecture critic cares about sink stoppers is beyond me.  He should call himself "travel editor" and be done with it.

He doesn't base his criticism on the lack of sink stoppers in the bathrooms.  The whole premise was "never settle for anything less than perfect."  So, he was pointing out the imperfections, among them being the lack of sink stoppers.

Just imagine that your dream was to have a really good shave at Bandon and they took that from you when you couldn't fill the basin with steaming hot water.
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2012, 11:23:54 AM »
Tom Dunne, nice article, well done.

The whole idea of channeling perfectionism to golf is messed up for real golfers, and as such, whether its' Bandon or Augusta you have this thread.

Credible critical commmentary is always interesting especially in respect to something I'm familiar with.

Too often I read columnists/journalists who are only offering half baked opinions about such and such in order to grab headlines and sell...

I mean what happened to Ron Whitten?

A realistic gripe about Bandon would be no holes on the putting greens adajcent to the first tees, LOL.

Love the humor here.

Thanks



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It's all about the golf!

Kyle Harris

Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2012, 11:27:00 AM »
Ha.

The joke's apparently on all of you. This thread was enjoyable read. Thank you.

I really like Ron and came away with a very good first impression of him.
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Tom Dunne

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2012, 11:38:47 AM »
William,

I'd agree with you if you were to actually see this exchange in the print edition of Golf Digest. But I doubt you will. I just think we should take this post with a shaker of salt--in Internet parlance, it's "content".
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George Pazin

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #140 on: January 16, 2012, 01:41:40 PM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 15, 2012, 10:40:31 AM
Is this (this thread) what happens when a sacred cow is not universally praised?  I think so.

There are many many threads on this very site that include criticism of the Bandon resort and its courses, yet none needed to mention the drain stoppers.

Unless maybe that was Whitten's point... but I doubt it.

A lot of people base their own self-images on finding "flaws" with other people or things; somehow if they can see these "flaws", they are better and smarter than others. Good luck with that...
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jed Peters

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #141 on: January 16, 2012, 06:15:19 PM »
I got a kick out of him blog post--and def. took it with a grain of salt.

That said, there are several good points--

1. the accommodations at bandon are great if you're going to do what I do--play sunrise to sunset and then sleep. They are spartan and nothing more than what is needed. That said, pebble kicks it's ass for accommodations.

2. Food sucks. Come on, it's adequate at best. Seriously. Again, Pebble kicks it's ass. At least it's somewhat cheap, quick, and plentiful.

3. Caddies--never an issue at either place. I use Joe B at bandon (4 trips now out of 8 total) and he's on point. Plus it's usually my group speeding up the group in front of us.
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #142 on: January 16, 2012, 06:38:03 PM »
What I don't understand is that I have a fine hotel fetish. I always research and stay in the finest hotel I can afford. I still recall loving the accommodations at Bandon. I thought the ability for two male golfers to get ready simultaneously was ergonomic genius.

I even thought the parking and shuttle system was great. I will however never take another caddie. The $5 trolley is perfect.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #143 on: January 16, 2012, 06:41:51 PM »
Quote from: Jed Peters on January 16, 2012, 06:15:19 PM
...
2. Food sucks. Come on, it's adequate at best. Seriously. Again, Pebble kicks it's ass. At least it's somewhat cheap, quick, and plentiful.
...

Could you please let us know what eateries at BD Resort you patronized, and a small indication what would take to raise its evaluation?
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jed Peters

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2012, 07:09:32 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on January 16, 2012, 06:41:51 PM
Quote from: Jed Peters on January 16, 2012, 06:15:19 PM
...
2. Food sucks. Come on, it's adequate at best. Seriously. Again, Pebble kicks it's ass. At least it's somewhat cheap, quick, and plentiful.
...

Could you please let us know what eateries at BD Resort you patronized, and a small indication what would take to raise its evaluation?


I've eaten just about everything on the menu, from the pub to the main restaurant. The food has always struck me as merely "okay". This includes the meatloaf, which has gotten worse it seems in the last 10 years--but I may have had a bad batch every time I go.

Nothing earth shattering--I know. But the last two times I've been to pebble, I've had food (and a price tag to match it) that has been awesome.

John K: The facilities for sleep is fine. I agree with the communal brilliance. It's one of the only place I will share a bed with a fellow traveler.

That said, the mattresses, pillows, sheeting, and other "accoutrements" are not up to other fine hotels. However--I usually am so f-ing exhausted that I hit the pillow and crash anyhow.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2012, 07:41:10 PM »
Jed,

I agree about the pub meatloaf being merely ok.

Last trip I ate at the restaurant above Pac Dunes club house, which specializes in sea food, and my friend and I found the food to be exceptional.

There are at least five restaurants at the resort. So I have to think unless one has sampled them all, it is hard to give a verdict on the food.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JLahrman

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2012, 07:51:56 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on January 16, 2012, 06:41:51 PM

Could you please let us know what eateries at BD Resort you patronized, and a small indication what would take to raise its evaluation?


I'm a vegetarian...the lunch and dinner options for vegetarians are fairly sparse.

I will note that the cook in the Bandon Trails clubhouse whipped me up a good grilled veggie wrap on short notice (as I recall, there was nothing vegetarian on the menu at the BT grill).

You'd think a resort in the same state where "Portlandia" is shot would offer a little more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LBICPEK6w
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Terry Lavin

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2012, 08:17:11 PM »
It's BYOB. Bring your own broccoli.
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #148 on: January 17, 2012, 09:01:41 AM »
I stayed in Chicago's Palmer House Hotel this weekend for $104/night.  Sink stoppable though I let the water run in silent protest of Whitten's blog.  Besides, I like keeping the razor blade hot between strokes.

Bogey
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:48:14 AM by Michael_Hendren »
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #149 on: January 17, 2012, 09:23:46 AM »
One of my favorite things about golfing at Bandon is exploring the area.   For example, there's a light blue building on the harbor that serves just-caught seafood.  It's amazingly good.

I don't need on-site stuff or the "bubble" (like you get at Disney World).  Let me explore, meet the folks that live there and enjoy their businesses.

If I had one suggestion, it'd be to run a shuttle into town once in a while.  

PS - I'm very happy with Hampton Inn-level stuff, and feel uncomfortable in super "high-end" type hotels.  Bandon was very upscale for me, but absolutely perfect.  

PPS - Jud is 100% correct in the next post!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:32:44 AM by Dan Herrmann »
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