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Jud_T

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #150 on: January 17, 2012, 09:31:42 AM »
This is all sort of silly.  It's a golf resort.  Nobody travels to the middle of nowhere Oregon for 5 star cuisine, a gourmet swiss chocolate mint on your fine silk pillow and coffee shat by inbred himalayan kittens.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #151 on: January 17, 2012, 09:36:30 AM »
This is all sort of silly.  It's a golf resort.  Nobody travels to the middle of nowhere Oregon for 5 star cuisine, a gourmet swiss chocolate mint on your fine silk pillow and coffee shat by inbred himalayan kittens.

 ;D ;D

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #152 on: January 17, 2012, 10:00:52 AM »
Some of us are:
a) Golf Snobs
b) Golf Architecture Snobs
c) Food Snobs
d) Wine Snobs
e) Single Malt Snobs
f)  Lodging Snobs
g) Art Snobs (sorry, visited The Chicago Art Institute Sunday - still don't get Jackson Pollack at all :-\)
g) Any combination or all of the above

That's cool.    Frankly, I'm only passionate about b) but really appreciate the perspective of this discussion group on other things.   Cultural exchange is a great side benefit of this website.

Just a Hillbilly,

Bogey


Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #153 on: January 17, 2012, 10:12:08 AM »
5 star cuisine, a gourmet swiss chocolate mint on your fine silk pillow and coffee shat by inbred himalayan kittens.

All part of the experience at Pebble, Kohler, Sea Island, Greenbrier, Kiawah, etc. Albeit, the coffee is a little strong for my taste, though.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #154 on: January 17, 2012, 10:16:31 AM »
Howard,

One of the reasons I won't be frequenting any of those fine establishments in the near future.  We have much better food on almost any corner in Chicago, or in my kitchen.

Bogey,

Saying you're a hillbilly after dissing Jackson Pollock is redundant... ;)  
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:40:40 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #155 on: January 17, 2012, 10:30:04 AM »
How can someone who doesn't get Jackson Pollock separate the rating of golf courses based on something so simplistic as the year of 1960.  Pollock died in 1956. Does that open up your Golfweek sensibilities of modern vs classic?

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #156 on: January 17, 2012, 10:35:41 AM »
As I explained to Jud by IM I prefer the French Impressionists - at least they painted "something" even if they never quite finished their work!  

Barney, I also prefer Chuck Close and Gerhard Richter's photorealism to Picasso and Dali.  However, the latter's work does give me some insight into your mind.

GCA profile comment of the day:  Few know that Barney actually bought and sold artwork in his formative years.  

I apologize for the threadjack.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #157 on: January 17, 2012, 10:36:42 AM »
I'll preface this all by saying that I've never been to Bandon, would love to go, and Whitten's "review" did not change my outsider's opinion at all.

My initial reaction to reading the piece was an incredulous one, since he just seemed to be taking petty pot-shots at the place for no reason other than to just do it.  But I thought about it for a moment and concluded that Whitten was engaging in satire in two opposite directions (I don't know if this was the intention, but it was the effect).

First, he was turning the spotlight on the near-religious attitude many golfers hold toward Bandon.  Not that it's wrong to have a strong affinity toward the place, but it is a posture that Whitten, evidently, considered ripe for a little fun-poking.

Second, though, Whitten also seems satirizing the practice of overly critical reviews of places that are widely held to be very good and great.  Surely this is not the first time a critic has appeared to pan a resort or restaurant or a product that the vast, vast majority of people love.

It is also important to note that in his introduction to the article, Whitten basically says to the reader, "This has my name on it, but it isn't REALLY me.  I'm applying an eye to Bandon Dunes that is as critical as Steve Jobs' was known to be."  Judging by the reaction that Whitten has gotten among people who respect and love Bandon Dunes, it seems pretty clear that the same type of scrutiny Jobs used during the design process of products made by his company need not be used when appraising a place like Bandon Dunes that, as long as the golf is as good as everyone knows it to be, will always have full rooms.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #158 on: January 17, 2012, 10:49:56 AM »
Tim,

Using Jobs as a source of criticism seems way off base to me. My opinion is that if Jobs and Gates were in the golf resort business, we would get Bandon Dunes from Jobs and the Prairie Club from Gates.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #159 on: January 17, 2012, 10:51:42 AM »
Or maybe Whitten spends 150 days on the road and really enjoys his morning shave.  Just last month I refused to stay at the same hotel as where my conference was being held.  Twice I was put on hold when I asked if Cincinnati was on Eastern or Central time.  It's always the little things that crawl up your ass and won't let go.

Bandon gets a ton of traffic by clientele that has little respect for other peoples property.  Golfers who don't replace or fix gouges in the ground where they are guests but do so when at home.  I haven't been to Bandon for quite a few years, perhaps the accommodations are getting tired.  Think of the Polynesian at Disney.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #160 on: January 17, 2012, 11:40:55 AM »
In defense of what some of the others have said in this thread...


....it seems to me, given the type of wealthy customers the resort often draws, I'm surprised the resort doesn't have at least 1 fine dining place, if not 2.  I get that guys just want to have a quick breakfast, or a quick lunch.  But after a day on the links, I can see how most would want to settle in for a very nice dinner experience with good food and wine.

Perhaps Bandon is just too small and remote to provide the personnel and cooks required to deliver such an experience.

Does anyone leave the resort at night to hit any nice dining spots in Bandon or Coos bay? If so any favs?

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #161 on: January 17, 2012, 12:11:48 PM »
Alloro Wine Bar and Cafe is excellent, www.allorowinebar.com. it would be a go to place in any big city for authentic Italian food and good steaks

we go there all the time and have never been disappointed, call ahead for tables of 8 as it's not a big place and they have seasonal hours

tell Leanne that Gray Grieve referred you, thanks
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 12:13:21 PM by William Grieve »
It's all about the golf!

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #162 on: January 17, 2012, 12:46:42 PM »
Kalen:

In my opinion, they have very high end accommodations with the Grove Cottages.  However, due to the less costly alternatives, most don't stay there.  I simply don't think it is fair to compare rooms at the Lily Pond or Inn with Pebble ultra expensive accommodations.  If you are going to compare accommodations, people should use the Grove Cottages in comparison to Pebble.  Spanish Bay may still be better, but it is not by a large margin.

Re: the food, the Gallery resaurant in the Lodge is very nice with very good food and a great wine list.  Again, just because most people eat at McKee's or the Tufted Puffin because they are cheaper does not mean they should be compared to Pebble, which has no cheap alternatives.  Could the Gallery be nicer, yes, but it is a high end alternative (even though not 5 star or ala carte).

"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #163 on: January 17, 2012, 12:47:11 PM »
Has anyone ever joined a club or gone to a golf resort for the food?  I sure hope not!

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #164 on: January 17, 2012, 12:59:18 PM »
How can someone who doesn't get Jackson Pollock separate the rating of golf courses based on something so simplistic as the year of 1960.  Pollock died in 1956. Does that open up your Golfweek sensibilities of modern vs classic?

Modernism in the arts started around the beginning of the 20th century and Virginia Woolf said that "Human nature changed on or about December 1910."  Maybe we should use that as the cut-off date for classic and modern courses?
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #166 on: January 17, 2012, 01:11:40 PM »
Kalen:

In my opinion, they have very high end accommodations with the Grove Cottages.  However, due to the less costly alternatives, most don't stay there.  I simply don't think it is fair to compare rooms at the Lily Pond or Inn with Pebble ultra expensive accommodations.  If you are going to compare accommodations, people should use the Grove Cottages in comparison to Pebble.  Spanish Bay may still be better, but it is not by a large margin.

Re: the food, the Gallery resaurant in the Lodge is very nice with very good food and a great wine list.  Again, just because most people eat at McKee's or the Tufted Puffin because they are cheaper does not mean they should be compared to Pebble, which has no cheap alternatives.  Could the Gallery be nicer, yes, but it is a high end alternative (even though not 5 star or ala carte).



Let's call a spade a spade - McKee's is devoid of atmosphere!!

I agree.  McKee's was one of my only disappointments at Bandon.  I was expecting an authentic northwestern pub with a cool atmosphere and got a TGI Fridays with 2 big rooms (upstairs and downstairs). 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #168 on: January 17, 2012, 01:56:19 PM »
I'm guessing anyone who writes for Slate must be at least a 85 on the ACI scale.  That combined with those who would actually write an article like that has got to put him square in the 90s somewhere...

Just sayin'  ;)

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #169 on: January 17, 2012, 03:46:35 PM »
The resort has taken the burger dog off the menu... :(
It's all about the golf!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #170 on: January 17, 2012, 03:56:58 PM »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #171 on: January 17, 2012, 06:42:51 PM »
I'm curious as to how true this is. My experience is the "timekeepers" are placed extensively around the course and in effect serve as marshals. It would seem to me that a caddy would only appear to "cajole and push golfers along" if the player was excessively slow.


"But worst of all are the caddies at Bandon Dunes. They don’t work for the guys who pay them (with tip); they work for the resort, and their priority is not to give good yardages or properly read greens, it’s to make sure that play keeps moving. They fuss, cajole and push golfers along, checking with timekeepers placed periodically throughout each course. Bandon’s caddies are really marshals in coveralls."

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/the-tao-of-steve.html#ixzz1jlHXLclB

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #172 on: January 17, 2012, 07:53:50 PM »
ACI that is great.

I heard another one recently,  niner.   As in, anyone who would not have any consideration that playing slowly impacts those behind them is a niner.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #173 on: January 17, 2012, 08:31:25 PM »
I'm curious as to how true this is. My experience is the "timekeepers" are placed extensively around the course and in effect serve as marshals. It would seem to me that a caddy would only appear to "cajole and push golfers along" if the player was excessively slow.


"But worst of all are the caddies at Bandon Dunes. They don’t work for the guys who pay them (with tip); they work for the resort, and their priority is not to give good yardages or properly read greens, it’s to make sure that play keeps moving. They fuss, cajole and push golfers along, checking with timekeepers placed periodically throughout each course. Bandon’s caddies are really marshals in coveralls."


the time keepers do monitor pace of play, but who really cares unless the group ahead of you is two or more holes behind with four caddies who are slowing down the pace with conferences over each shot

the caddie stuff is a total fabrication of a diffferent reality at least in my experience
It's all about the golf!

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #174 on: January 29, 2012, 09:33:48 PM »
Bandon listened. Sink stoppers are forthcoming. 

Matt Ginella at Golf Digest wrote about it in his blog on the PGA Merchandise Show.
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/notes-best-of-booth-babes-from.html

"After Ron Whitten's recent Jobsian critique of Bandon's bathroom offerings, I'm told they're installing sink stoppers. (Credit goes to Bandon management for not tuning out Whitten's rant.)"

Additionally...

"And Whitten will be pleased to know, that in addition to building The Preserve, the 13-hole par-3 course which opens in May, that Coore/Crenshaw have also increased the size of Bandon Trails' 14th green, as well as eliminated some of the fairway bunkers on the 18th hole."

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke