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Tiger_Bernhardt

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You have to love Waialae CC
« on: January 12, 2012, 10:32:48 PM »
I just love watching the sony tour stop. What a great course. But how much Raynor is left there. I have not played there.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 11:20:55 PM »
17 is supposed to be the Redan but has been flattened and turned into a nothing hole.
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Sam Morrow

Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 11:28:01 PM »
I started a similar thread a few years back and was told there is no Raynor left, still looks like a cool course.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 11:34:06 PM »
Charlie Rymer on the pre show commented on the Redan and Biarritz.
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George Freeman

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 11:49:34 PM »
Funny, I was just watching the tournament thinking about how boring this course was when compared to last week's stop at Kapalua - Plantation.

I'm not sure I see the intrigue.  I was really surprised to hear it was originally a Raynor.  I didn't see one distinguishing Raynor "feature".
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Howard Riefs

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 11:52:50 PM »
Quote from: Sam Morrow on January 12, 2012, 11:28:01 PM
I started a similar thread a few years back and was told there is no Raynor left, still looks like a cool course.

Here's that thread:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38283.0.html

And a post by George on Raynor's original plan and routing. The nines are flipped by the PGA Tour for the tournament.


Quote from: George_Bahto on January 17, 2009, 01:21:43 PM
here's the original plan - from their club history

some of the hole styles from the original routing: (they may have reversed the 9's - too bored with this course to go thru it all)

2 - Eden  160
4 - plateau type green - crossbunker at 330  this was probably a Raynor    Prize Dog-Leg hole @ 460
6 - bottle hole (orig) 400

ck this one:
hole 7: "360 yard drive and pitch - runs along the ocean, patterned after famous green at Garden City”

8 - Redan
10 - 503 yd version of Road hole with optional tee
13 - 210 yd Biarritz (? see what it looks like now)
16 - 140 yds, patterned after well known 6th green at National course

* holes were renamed in 1965 for Sony Open

if I remember correctly these descriptions were written by Raynor (I have a full 18 hole set of descriptions, but those are the highlights

actually the story about the building of the hotel is more interesting than the course story



« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:08:20 AM by Howard Riefs »
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

RJ_Daley

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 02:37:07 AM »
I'd like to take up a collection to raise enough to buy and transport some palm trees to Wild Horse.  We could have the palms planted and forced to grow into a "W" and an "H".  Maybe the W as an aiming point behind #13, and the H in the foregreen of #4 like kicking a field goal between the uprights to get on.   ;D ::)

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PCCraig

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 08:51:03 AM »
Looks like there were some really neat holes on Raynor's course. It's too bad the course has been smoothed out the way it has.

Has anyone actually played it? Does it play/look better in person? From a purely spectator perspective, Kapalua was a lot more fun to watch the PGA Tour players on.
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H.P.S.

PCCraig

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 08:52:25 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on January 12, 2012, 11:34:06 PM
Charlie Rymer on the pre show commented on the Redan and Biarritz.

Looks like Charlie might of actually learned something other than show ideas during his three days on GCA.
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H.P.S.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 09:32:58 AM »
RJ--

You may have been referring to this in your post about palm trees at Wild Horse, but I saw on last nights telecast that there are four palm trees arranged in the shape of a W behind the green at number 16 (number 7 usually, I guess).  I thought it looked really cool; the W palms are the only interruptions of an otherwise horizon-going ocean view.
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Terry Lavin

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 09:48:28 AM »
Quote from: Tim Gavrich on January 13, 2012, 09:32:58 AM
RJ--

You may have been referring to this in your post about palm trees at Wild Horse, but I saw on last nights telecast that there are four palm trees arranged in the shape of a W behind the green at number 16 (number 7 usually, I guess).  I thought it looked really cool; the W palms are the only interruptions of an otherwise horizon-going ocean view.

Disturbing.  ;D
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JC Urbina

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 10:38:56 AM »
Tiger,

I may have responded to this before but if you like Raynor golf courses you would really enjoy the old Aerial they have of this course hanging in a hallway in the clubhouse.  Years ago I toured the golf course with the pro.  He showed me the old B/W aerial and I am still irked I didn't get a photo of it.   Based on the photo the angles were all there and the greens were as big and bold as any I had seen.

The only recognizable feature today is the green on the par 3 14th-/ 4th on TV, Biarritz and I guess you could say the Redan but barely so.

Today many of the members and TV audience enjoy the golf course as it sits today.  I see it as what if it was restored to it's former past,  That would give the Hawaiian islands one of the most historical golf courses in the Western Pacific.
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William_G

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 10:50:14 AM »
Quote from: P. Craig on January 13, 2012, 08:51:03 AM
Looks like there were some really neat holes on Raynor's course. It's too bad the course has been smoothed out the way it has.

Has anyone actually played it? Does it play/look better in person? From a purely spectator perspective, Kapalua was a lot more fun to watch the PGA Tour players on.

I have played it and it is just your normal, windy, flat, Hawaiian wall to wall bermuda course.

Love the hotel and location etc... but there is not much happening with the course at all.

Would benefit from a C & C restoration.
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Dustin Ferrell

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 10:59:23 AM »
Great to get some insight from this forum.  Watching this tourney every year on tv, i actually found it kinda uninspiring, but interesting to know that a past version of this place probably had a lot more character and intrique.

Dustin
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Bill McKinley

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 11:00:43 AM »
Sad that it was a Raynor in Hawaii and is now a flat "Tour" course.  I had no idea that it was a Raynor, or used to be one, until I just happened to see it on the Golf Channel bottom line.  Also, I saw that Desmond Muirhead is creditted for a redesign, which is probably mostly what we see today.
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Jud_T

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 11:13:12 AM »
Tiger,

Played it in late 2010.  A good option given the mediocre competition on the island, but nothing to write home about, particularly if you're looking for Raynor...
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

George Freeman

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 11:39:23 AM »
I'm salivating at the thought of this course being restored to the original Raynor specs.

However, I highly doubt an undertaking like that is on any of the decision makers radar.
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Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 11:41:24 AM »
George,

I thought it wasn't even the same routing.  Wasn't some of the land sold off and some original holes lost at some point?
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Kalen Braley

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2012, 12:25:57 PM »
I'm with George on this one.

I see little to no interest in the actual course at all.  Its about as mysterious as a clogged toilet would be to a plumber.

A restoration to what it was does look very intriguing though!!
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George Freeman

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2012, 12:31:19 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on January 13, 2012, 11:41:24 AM
George,

I thought it wasn't even the same routing.  Wasn't some of the land sold off and some original holes lost at some point?

No idea, Jud.  I'm just dreaming...
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Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2012, 12:54:33 PM »
Quote from: William Grieve on January 13, 2012, 10:50:14 AM
Quote from: P. Craig on January 13, 2012, 08:51:03 AM
Looks like there were some really neat holes on Raynor's course. It's too bad the course has been smoothed out the way it has.

Has anyone actually played it? Does it play/look better in person? From a purely spectator perspective, Kapalua was a lot more fun to watch the PGA Tour players on.

I have played it and it is just your normal, windy, flat, Hawaiian wall to wall bermuda course.

Love the hotel and location etc... but there is not much happening with the course at all.

Would benefit from a C & C restoration.

Was their any noticeable tilt to the Redan green?   Everything is pretty much flat out there.
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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 08:09:19 PM »
Thanks guys and Jim I agree with your thoughts. I started this because on TV I cannot see any Raynor features or angles that jump out at me. This certainly was not meant to compare to Kapalua. I love the setting on both. This course just has a classic feel like many small greens, burmuda rough courses in the deep south I grew up on. Of course we had oaks and pines with bayous and rivers. They have palm trees and oceans.  RJ any fan of its a mad mad mad mad world loves a course with a big W.
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Scott Stearns

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2012, 05:42:35 PM »
I've watched this course on TV for 30 years, and never once wanted to play it or even see it.  If the best people can say about it is that "theres a really great aerial from way back when in the clubhouse" then i guess I have my answer.

Thanks for posting the thread--was wondering too. 
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2012, 06:30:41 PM »
It's in 3D on DirecTV saturday and Sunday.   
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Howard Riefs

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Re: You have to love Waialae CC
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2012, 07:55:56 PM »
Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on January 13, 2012, 08:09:19 PM
...any fan of its a mad mad mad mad world loves a course with a big W.

Matty G has the backstory of how the big W came about.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/the-who-what-when-why-and-how.html
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke
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