[Michael_Stachowicz]

For those of you who are raters out there, I have a question.  Does a golf course with poor taste in signs, flags, tee markers, distance markers, etc. suffer in the ratings?   More specifically, I am in a position where the owners would like me to install stakes or flags at the 100, 125, 150, 175, and 200, (this is in addition to GPS on the carts and marked sprinkler heads) plus additional directional flags on semi blind holes.  I think we should change our name to wally world cc.

[Peter Galea]

Golf is a game of judgement and perception.
That being said, don't forget who signs your check.

[redanman (Guest)]

The classiest thing out there is the 150 yd barber pole in the middle of the fairway.  'nuff said

[Richard Chamberlain]

Mike,

Obviously you're a superintendant or club manager.
Is there a slow play problem at this course, and will any of these devices solve the problem ?
I know they are marketed as solving (or reducing) the problem but does it actually work in reality ?

[Ed_Baker]

Mike,

I empathize with your frustration for the overkill. The sad fact is that mostly because of TV golf today's casual player is just as obsessed with yardage as the touring pro, regardless of their skill level.

The reality of the situation is that most players could drop five balls in the middle of the fairway at 150 yards out and maybe hit the green once! But if the course does not provide them with the proper yardage they will "rate" the course as inferior and blame their poor play on not knowing yardages all day and they won't come back. Pretty silly, but that's reality.Pete G's advice is right on, remember who signs your check, if the owners want the golf course to look like the UN pavillion, then there really is no point in arguing with them.

I had a bitch of a time instituting the "less is more" philosophy at my own club, as a matter of fact "less is more" lasted precisely as long as my term as Green Chairman and President.

We are back to yellow whiffle ball bats at 150 yards and red one's at 100 yards, UGH! This on a "restored" Ross course, to me it is like going to the symphony dressed like Ronald MacDonald!

[RJ_Daley]

I rather like the dried cow skulls, in the rough - just off the fairways, at right around 150 yards at Wild Horse  

However, I do think they ought to get out to the Nevada desert and pick up some dried horse skulls just to be pure and consistent about the theme.

A bit more seriously, I think the proper selection of bridge design and materials to match the enviroment or area's style and traditions are a classy thing - although an expensive proposition to do it right.

[Michael_Stachowicz]

I would like to thank everyone for at least cheering me up and making me laugh.  I now need to become creative so it doesn't look like the UN.  Being a former farm, I can probably find the cow skulls in the woods.  Actually my mechanic has been collecting random bones found during construction to try and rebuild the former cows.  And I thought I won the decoration battle early on by putting the ball washers on the carts and getting them off the tee boxes.  The walkers?  Well, they would be real golfers, and real golfers don't use ball washers, they use spit.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike, when I rate courses I look at the holes -- all 18 of them. I try to avoid thinking about the side features.

I do agree with redanman that "less is more" and having just a barber pole around 150 is more than enough. Ditto the comments of Ed -- although I understand his take on how matters can change at a club.

I get a real chuckle out of many golfers who think they can fly a shot in the air over 200 yards. Many can't and somehow looking for a yardage marker that says 208 yards to center, 198 to the front and 220 to the back, is information overload. JUST HIT THE DAM BALL!!!

The real issue is that players need to play without undue delay. I chuckle at courses that advocate speed of play, but have the tube-top cart girl and the all-you-can-offer floating carts that stuff more peanuts in the golfer's mouth than an elephant could ever eat in a year!!!

Most courses cater to the person who plays golf -- not to golfers! That's the difference -- you need to know your audience and what they want because ultimately the agenda of your facility is based upon their satisfaction. When course ownership is more attune to the concessions than to the actual game you have a problem.  

It's those courses that I avoid.

[Mark_Fine]

Michael,
If you told them yes would it change their mind?
Mark

[JohnV]

Gearhart which is an old course on the Oregon Coast used to have one pole in the rough, 200 yards from the back tee marker.  You had do the math.  I was told that a lot of older courses used to do that, but I've never seen it anywhere else.  They had a redesign a couple of years ago so I'm not sure if they survived.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Matt,
    I believe Bill was joking about his affinity for barber poles.

[SL_Solow]

If we accept the fact that under the influence of the touring pros the bulk of the golfing public wants to play by "yardage" rather than by "eye", the issue becomes; what is the least obtrusive method of providing such information and how will that effect both speed of play and cost?  On that assumption I suggest that marking irrigation heads is the best solution.  They are readily available, generally 20 yards apart and, in a double row system, not too far away from most shots.  The cost is relatively small and only occurs once unless the hole or the irrigation is changed.  Best of all, unless you look you can't see them and they are available to walkers and cart ballers.

[paul albanese]

there are few things more frustrating than when an Owner "decorates" the course in a manner inconsistent with the design intent.

I use the analogy of a great building architect having his work be ruined by a poor interior designer who knows nothing about furniture or lampshades, etc.  

God is in the details -- an a classic architectural expression-- and many of these final details on a golf course, such as the signage, benches, etc, definitely may add or detract from the overall experience.  

As much as I pontificate here -- I must admit, that this part of the project is often overlooked by the golf course architect, mostly because it is not in his or her typical scope of services.  But, I am contemplating making it a standard part.  Mies Van Der Roh (I screwed up that spelling) -- a modern architect (skyscrapers, etc) would often design furniture as well.  Golf course architects are often done with the project when the grass is sown, and leave the final details to the superintendent or Owner.  I think golf course architects should have more input into these final "decorations" -- that way they will fit more consistently with the overall concept for the course.

What truly made me feel this way was when one of our clients put cartoon characters on one of our courses as tee markers -- a shark, a tiger, a bear, and a walrus -- get it.  It totally took away from the concept and made it seem like Wally World.  

[Brad Klein]

Unless I'm mistaken, Mike is the superintendent at the new Ranch GC in Southwick, Mass., where he did a helluva grow-in job on a very tough site - in part fending off overly intrusive management that wanted him to open the course early. So he's got his hands full keeping the place pure.

Actually, I think barber poles at 150-yards are phenomenal. They look great from the tee, and esp. at The Ranch, with so many semi-blind tee shots. they would help enormously. (Southern Dunes in Haines City, Fla., has them and has won national raves for its design/operation.)

But it would be a serious mistake to have any more than that in terms of vertical structures. You can put whatever you want onto sprinkler heads. But trees, bushes, Kirby markers just clutter the place up.

Hey, I'm 20 miles down the road - have me up with the owners (again) for a chat and we'll back you 100%.

[Paul Richards]

Mike:

I agree that the barber poles at 150 yards, if they are the only such feature, look great and actually do speed up play.

But anything beyond that -  less is more.

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