[Jay Flemma]

So I'm 2/3 done with my NW trip to open the year.  Great fun so far.  I'll post pics when I get time, but for now I figured I'd get the ball rolling.
Chambers Bay was really wonderful.  I really like Whistling Straits, I love Arcadia Bluffs, I really love Pac Dunes, but Chambers may be my fave of that crop.  Fave holes included 1, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 17, and 18.  Yes, I like the new bunker on 18.  It's murder.  I went in and played a shot with a 9-iron.  I got it out, but it hit the sidewall and only advanced 40-50 yards.  I got that down in two though.  There is no question in my mind it's a stroke penalty if you get in it, but most shouldn't get in it, because there is plenty of room around it.

They have dubbed it "Chambers Basement."  I like the name.  Bob Jones cracked me up, because when I got out he asked, "how did you like your trip to China?"  

I like it, and I like it more that they are putting one more like it (only less severe) at 14 so it becomes a recurring theme to silence the criticism that "it doesn't fit with the rest of the course."

Gold Mountain was a great time.  I played with John Harbottle and he really loves Macdonald/Raynor/Banks architecture.  He'd be a great addition to our board!. What a great value - $24 today.  That's amazing.  You can play all day on a weekend now for $30.  The highest rate in high season is $60.

It's only his 3rd course chronologically, so he was sort of cutting his teeth, yet there are some cool things like a Redanish look on 12 and lions mouth with Eden features (his words) on 16. I also like 17.  I think the best stretched are the The tee shots seemed a little repetitive, but one can't complain about the value!  It's a great price for courses that have hosted USGA Championships.

Your thoughts?

No. 2



No. 9



No. 10



No. 15



Chambers Basement







 

[Steve Lang]

  Jay..
Gold Mountain is great value.. did you walk?

[Jay Flemma]

Fixed the pics, and yes, we walked.  Really nice time.

[Jay Flemma]

Here are more pics, this time from Gold Mtn:  some from today, some the course gave me to use in articles.

This was one of the only holes that I wasn't crazy about, but it had an interesting green.



Harbottle calls his deep grass bunkers "dungeons"



No 5



No 9

[Mike Hendren]

Jay, your opinion of the 18th at Gold Mountain?

Bogey

[Jay Flemma]

18?  Well I guess it follows the same line of thinking at Cypress Point - instead of being a half stroke harder, it's a half stroke easier.  Par 3.5.  I think it's a good match play hole.  It also is a summation of all that came before, albeit a miniature version.  It's not a strong finisher, but it can have interesting effects on matches.  Personally I like a good 18th being harder - requiring best drive of the day, then best second shot - but that's just me.

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks, Jay.  I think the 17th saves the 18th.  Both are have par two shotters, the 17th being 4.5 and 18th being 3.5.  Ub tandem they make for an interesting finish.

Bogey

[Tom Yost]

I think your pic of CB #10 may actually be #6.

[Matthew Essig]

You are right, Tom. The picture is of #6.
Where on 14 are they going to dig the second hole to China?   

[Jay Flemma]

Oops I meant to post the pic of ten.  Tough to see when they are these little thumbnails.  When I get off the road I will post ten:)

Yes, I like 17 and it is a par 4+.  What do you think of 16.

Guys, Wine Valley is the real deal.  Wonderful greens and really interesting holes with a lot of character.  I'll post pics of that course shortly as well. 

[Jay Flemma]

Here's the pic of 10 I meant to post

[Jay Flemma]

Here's some from WV




1 Tee




5 Green





6





2 shots of the 7th green




and





8 green




9 approach





I'll post more when I get time.

[Jay Flemma]

Mark Saltzman:  I agree with your assessment about the split fwy at 3...I don't think the strategies are correct...challenge the harder shot at get rewarded with a shot over water?  That's backwards.  That being said, the greens are epic, the conditioning fast and firm, and the whole experience excellent.

Mark, I'm curious if you've played Gold Mtn and what you thought...

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark Saltzman:  I agree with your assessment about the split fwy at 3...I don't think the strategies are correct...challenge the harder shot at get rewarded with a shot over water?  That's backwards.  That being said, the greens are epic, the conditioning fast and firm, and the whole experience excellent.

Mark, I'm curious if you've played Gold Mtn and what you thought...

Jay, haven't played Gold Mountain -- I think they were having a junior event while I was there. 

RE #3 at Wine Valley -- yeah that hole was a rare 'miss' on a golf course full of really good holes.  The fairway left of the centreline bunkering is bizarre.  I remember when I played it, I had no idea there was any fairway over there -- it looks like the fairway just drops off, presumably into the tall stuff. 

Then when I got to the fairway, I actually went back and forth from the upper fairway to the lower fairway a couple of times to try to work out why you would ever want to play to the left.  I think I came to the conclusion that you would never actually do it in on purpose -- but then, what's the point of having the fairway over there?  It's more difficult (largely because of blindness) to find the fairway over the there... I still don't know why it's there. 

I recall there was some good discussion about this hole on the photo tour I posted... I better go back and look at it!

RE Wine Valley as a whole: It is unbelievably good.  I have thanked Kalen Braley several times over for recommending I take the 4 hour detour to go play it.  I was skeptical, but now I am a believer.  No. 99 modern? Not in my books!  I'm all for everyone having his/her own opinion, but whoever says Wine Valley is not top 50 modern, is wrong.

[Jay Flemma]

So what are your favorite holes there?  I like 5 with it's trench bunker running down the left and crossing in front of the green diagonally, and the terrific punchbowl at 7.

On the back I liked 15 the most.

I think this is also a course that proves Tom Doak right when he says "fewer bunkers more interestingly placed."

[Mark Saltzman]

So what are your favorite holes there?  I like 5 with it's trench bunker running down the left and crossing in front of the green diagonally, and the terrific punchbowl at 7.

On the back I liked 15 the most.

I think this is also a course that proves Tom Doak right when he says "fewer bunkers more interestingly placed."

I really liked 1 -- a perfect microcosm of the golf course.  Strategic decision-making off the tee, plenty of room to run the ball onto the green, and amazing green undulation.  On top of that, I love first holes that allow someone not feeling so confident on the first swing of the day (like me, who almost never warms up on the range), the opportunity to play to a wide part of the fairway; but also a more aggressive line available for someone wanting to make a statement with their first swing in a match (playing over the bunker on the right, catching the downslope and leaving a pitch into the green).

5 is a great hole.  Great sloping fairway; loved the 'sand river' running the length of the hole.  And the kicker/run-off combination left of the green was so clever -- play for the kicker to run the ball on the green, but get the yardage right because if you land past the kicker you leave a really hard recovery from the run-off -- also, it means you can't find the kicker by accident.  If you play a shot long enough to fly onto the green, it will fly right over the kicker.

6 - I don't like the water there, but I did really like the use of the faux-kicker.

7 - Good hole, but I remember questioning the severity of the punchbowl. I wonder if luck becomes to great a factor -- to a back pin, I tried to use the backboard, but the ball came back so hard it ended up on the front of the green.  Not saying it's bad, just might need to see it a few more times to know for sure.

10 - I loved the simplicity.  Amazing how a single well-placed bunker on an almost 600 yard hole can dictate strategy.

13 - the worst hole on the course.

15 - my favorite hole on the course.  Real decision-making on the tee shot.  One of the most perfectly-placed fairway bunkers I have ever seen 40ish yards short of the green.  Awesome green shaping and contouring, which seemed about perrfect for a short par-5.

17 - I thought the 'wall' feature on the left side of the fairway was really innovative.  Also one of the best greens on the course

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

Pretty much agreed on your last post.

I thought #9 was the worst hole on the course.  The approach shot with the pond to the right was just painfully out of place.  On the back 9 agreed about 13.  Its not a bad hole, there just isn't much going on with it.

Other holes not mentioned that I really liked.

The shortish par 4 4th - Really neat tee shot and one must really committ to the line on the approach shot.
Longish par 3 8th hole - What a terrific green they came up with on this one.  And again, only 1 bunker but with any middle of right pin it really messes with your head.
14 - par 3.  Probably my favorite par 3 on the course how it sits down next to the sand river.  Its got 2-3 tiers to it and the penalty for missing long is pretty severe.

[Mark Saltzman]

 agreed about 13.  Its not a bad hole, there just isn't much going on with it.

I've said many times over (though most don't seem to agree), that a big part of a course's greatness is determined by looking at its worst holes.

Wine Valley doesn't have any bad holes.  It's got a couple with water that's out-of-place on the property and one or two where there isn't much happening, but nothing that makes you say, "what the f*$% was that about!?" 

[Kalen Braley]

 agreed about 13.  Its not a bad hole, there just isn't much going on with it.

I've said many times over (though most don't seem to agree), that a big part of a course's greatness is determined by looking at its worst holes.

Wine Valley doesn't have any bad holes.  It's got a couple with water that's out-of-place on the property and one or two where there isn't much happening, but nothing that makes you say, "what the f*$% was that about!?" 

I would agree Mark,

9 and 13 are just OK holes...

...but everything else is in the "good to top notch" category

Holes like 5 and 15 are certainly candidates for being in the best of the best category!

P.S.  I really love the bowl on #7.  I've played it 4 times now and every time without fail I get excited to come up around the dune and see where my ball ended up.

[Jay Flemma]

Can someone post a pic of 13 please?  I'll post some pics of the back nine after I get back from a work meeting...

[Jay Flemma]

11




beautiful view





12





13...Mark, I actually like this hole





Yet another fantastic green





14





16





15 was my favorite hole on the back, a great short par-5 with a zig-zag fairway and green perched on a knoll.    Again, the green complexes are the lifeblood of the course,

[Jay Flemma]

You are right, Tom. The picture is of #6.
Where on 14 are they going to dig the second hole to China?   

Matthew E., the new bunker will be in the middle of the fairway to be consistent with the theme of the bunker on 18.

[Matthew Essig]

But there is already a bunker in the middle. Are they just going to make the bunker deeper then?

[Jay Flemma]

Matthew - they call that bunker "Bobby's bunker" and yes, they are making it a little deeper.  Certainly not as deep as what some call "Davis's Ditch," "others call "Gihooly Gulch" (sp?) but most call "Chambers Basement."

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