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Mark Saltzman

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Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« on: January 03, 2012, 11:24:13 PM »
The following review is also available on my newly-created blog: http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.com/2012/01/scarboro-g.html






Scarboro G&CC
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Architect: George Cumming (1914); A.W. Tillinghast (1924)

Yardage: Par 71, 6526 Yards

Slope/Rating: 136/72.3


My Quick Review: The only Tillinghast in Canada -- If you like great greens and rolling terrain, Scarboro is for you.



My Thoughts

Scarboro is a golf course with significant architectural pedigree (Cumming and Tillinghast).  The club has hosted the Canadian Open on four occasions, and has hosted many of the 'greats,' including Nicklaus and Palmer.

Cumming's routing uses the terrain very well, repeatedly crossing Highland Creek and moving the golfer golfer up, down and across some very undulating terrain.  The strong use of natural features helps to minimize the urban setting in which the course is located.

There is some significant tilt on Scarboro's greens.  I am not sure if this is typical of Tillie's greens, but the great majority of them have little internal contouring but slope significantly from back-to-front -- staying below the hole at Scarboro is an absolute must!

Of particular note at Scarboro is the sensational bunker placement.  There is minimal use of fairway bunkers at Scarboro, but where they are used, they are used with purpose.  Staggered bunkering creates very interesting strategic options.  The greenside bunkering is very clever as well.  While many of the greenside bunkers are quite deep, tremendous care was taken in varying bunker depths -- the deepest bunkers are found on the greens you are not supposed to miss.

Scarboro's greatest strength is found in its set of short par 4s.  Holes 3, 7, 15 and 16 all play 340 yards or less and each requires considerable thought.  These holes will all be profiled later in the review.


Holes to Note

Hole 1: Par 5, 576 Yards
Step on the 1st tee at Scarboro and you know you are about to play a quality golf course.  Staggered fairway bunkering and plenty of corridor width guarantee that this will be a course filled with strategic options.

1st Tee



The 1st is a long hole, not reachable in two for many.  Know your yardages and pick your line and stay out of trouble (even laying up the fairway bunkers is an option as it's 220 to reach the first one on the left).
The second shot is all about avoiding the significant mounding on the left side of the fairway -- nothing but deep rough and nasty lies there!  The fairway is plenty wide 150 yards from the green, but narrows as you get closer to the green -- how comfortable do you feel on the 1st hole of the day?

Mounding Guards the Left Side of the Fairway




Setting the tone for the remainder of the golf course, the first green slopes significantly from back-to-front and is guarded by deep greenside bunkers.  Not the most interesting greensite on the golf course, but it serves it's purpose as it is open in front and fairly forgiving -- appropriate for the first hole of the day as the green on a monstrous (at least when it was designed) par-5.

Approach to 1



Lots of Tilt on the 1st Green







Hole 3: Par 4, 342 Yards

The first of a very strong set of short par-4s.  The fairway is very wide if you are willing to lay back 125 yards from the green, but as the golfer gets more greedy, the fairway gets narrower.  The right side of the fairway is guarded by a steep drop-off into Highland Creek.

3 Tee




Though it is drastically uphill, the approach to the 3rd seems fairly straightforward, but...




There is a significant false-front and extremely deep (and hidden) greenside bunkering left, right and long.  The approach is straightforward, just don't mess it up!









Hole 4: Par 3, 205 Yards

The 4th is Scarboro's 'signature' hole.  A long par-3 that plays some 50 feet downhill from tee to green. The green is guarded by a series of 3 bunkers on the right and shots that are missed significantly to the right will find Highland Creek.

4 Tee



The green lays at angle to the tee and appears flat from afar, but as the golfer approaches the green, it is clear that there is a large ridge running across the green 2/3 of the way back.

4 Green




4 Green with Contouring Highlighted



4 from Behind





Hole 7: Par 4, 276 Yards

Another great short par-4, the 7th is short enough that many players will feel compelled to try to drive the green.  But, lurking 40 yards short of the green, right in the landing area of many drives, are two deep bunkers.  Just 'knocking it down there' doesn't work here -- if you are laying-up, be sure to lay-up well short of the green -- if you are going for it, be sure you can carry the cross-bunkers as finding them is the easiest way to turn a hole that should be a birdie hole into a surefire bogey.

7 Tee



7 Approach - Note the two bunkers 30 yards short of the green




Though it is difficult to see from the photo, there is a false-front on the green and a significant ridge that runs through the middle of this tiny two-tier green.  Front pin positions are difficult to get close to.




Hole 8: Par 4, 413 Yards

This hole has something for everyone -- a blind, quirky tee shot, great rolling terrain, a split-fairway, a forced-carrie over Highland Creek and an amazing natural greensite.

The tee shot is completely blind and (I presume) had a much more natural feeling before the apartment building was built.  The direction of the fairway gives the golfer the idea that the hole will continue to move left, but tee shots too far left will find Highland Creek.  The ideal line is straight at the apartment building.

8 Tee





As the player crests the hill, he is confronted with a dramatic split fairway.  Finding the upper fairway is probably ideal, but very difficult in practice as it requires a perfectly placed tee shot over the hill on the right -- most tee shots will find the less desirable lower fairway.

8 Top of Hill



The Approach to 8 is Played over Highland Creek





The greensite on the 8th is the best on the course.  Naturally located at the bottom of a mini-amphitheatre the at-grade green is perfectly placed.  There's no artificial mounding or bunkering necessary -- if only all greens were like this...

8th Greensite is as good as it gets




8 from Behind




Hole 10: Par 5, 527 Yards

The tenth is easily the best par-5 on the golf course.  Routed over not-so-gently rolling terrain, the tenth moves right from tee-to-green.  Three bunkers staggered on the right side of the fairway protect the ideal line and ensure that players of all length and ability will have a decision to make.

10 Tee



The first bunker lies 245 yards from the tee




Staggered bunkering protects the second shot landing area as well.  Lay-back to 140+ and avoid the bunkers altogether...




or, you can challenge the bunkers and have an approach from 100 yards out.




The green slopes with the natural lay of the land from left-to-right.  The bunker guarding the right side of the green is the deepest on the course.




Hole 11: Par 3, 110 Yards

Though not a great short par-3, it is definitely a good one.  The 11th is an opportunity to make birdie, but if you miss the green, you will be lucky to walk away with bogey.  The green slopes significantly from back-to-front and is surrounded by deep greenside bunkers set-back slightly from the green to make recovery more difficult.

11 Tee



Deep Bunkering Short...



Right, Long (and left not pictured)





Hole 15: Par 4, 320 Yards

Though short on the scorecard, few players will have the length to challenge this severely uphill par-4.  The tee shot is played to a split-level fairway -- it is only 190 yards to the upper-level, but the shot to the upper-level is blind and the fairway is narrowed.

15 Tee




Laying-up to the lower fairway leaves a very difficult and blind approach...




While tee shots into the upper fairway leave a far more appealing look at the green.




The approach to 15 is played over a scary-deep bunker to the most tilted green on the course and zero room to miss long.




A tiny, sloping green on the 15th




Missing long is not an option





Hole 16: Par 4, 284 Yards

The sixteenth is deceptively difficult.  Though there appears to be lots of width, shots that miss the fairway left will carom down the hill and into a ravine, and shots that miss right will be completely blocked-out by trees.  Clever players will hit an iron short of the fairway bunker on the right.

16 Tee




Approach from 100 Yards Out




Players that try to drive the green will have to deal with a very nasty collection area short of the green.  It is difficult to run a shot through this deep swale so players hoping to drive the green will probably have to carry it.  The swale also serves as a false-front, catching shots that land on the first few feet of the green.

A Deep Swale Protects the 16th Green




The View from in the Swale is Not Appealing!




Interestingly, even though this is a very short hole, the green is rather large and flat.  Thanks for the break, Tillie!





Hole 18: Par 4, 435 Yards

Probably the most-well known thing about Scarboro is the uber-quirky drive on the 18th hole, which is played over the heavily-trafficked Scarborough Golf Club Road.  In truth, the tee shot on the 18th is not visually appealing, though this will be rectified when the club completes the planned raising of the 18th tees.  Even though it is near-impossible to hit a car, it is still difficult to not be a little nervous hitting over the road.

18 Back Tee




18 Member Tee





It's a shame that the focus of the 18th is the quirky tee shot, as the remainder of the hole is actually very good.  The fairway is rolling, but on a grander scale than the rest of the golf course.  The approach is very difficult, likely played with a long-iron or hybrid to a plateau green protected again by deep bunkering.  The only negative is the unusual shape of the bunker short-right of the 18th green.  The use of a pot bunker is wholly inconsistent with the bunkering on the rest of the golf course.  Still, a strong finisher.

18 Approach




Matt Bosela

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 11:51:12 PM »
Nice review Mark.  Scarboro is one of my favourites in Ontario and is a heck of a lot of fun, especially with the abundance of short par fours.

Hopefully Ian can find the time to comment, as he worked with Gil Hanse on the gorgeous bunker restoration project a number of years ago.

Good luck with the blog as well.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 05:18:47 AM »
Cool photoshop move, highlighting the green contours on #4...if you like, PM me your steps, as that's a nice way to play with an image and come to know the ground's subtle movements.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mark McKeever

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 09:42:19 AM »
Mark,

Well documented tour!  It seems like a really neat course.  Did the greenside bunkers on four strike you as "different"? 

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 09:54:24 AM »
Mark,

Well documented tour!  It seems like a really neat course.  Did the greenside bunkers on four strike you as "different"? 

Mark

Mark, thanks!

They didn't, but they do now -- good catch.

I know that Ian Andrew and (I think) Gil Hanse worked together on the bunker restoration a few years ago at Scarboro. Hopefully he will see this thread and comment on those bunkers, and the pot bunker on 18. 

Guy Nicholson

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 10:21:57 AM »
Thanks for this, Mark. As always, great photos! A couple of questions:

- Does the tree inside the dogleg on 3 add or detract from the strategy of the hole? It looks almost redundant to me considering the front left greenside bunker.
- Why is the lower fairway on 8 less desirable? It's hard to tell from the photos why the approach angle is a factor.

Best, Guy

Mike Hendren

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 10:23:28 AM »
Mark, I enjoyed your excellent photo essay.  Absolutely love the art and crafts inspired clubhouse.  How is it inside?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 11:20:24 AM »
Guy,

That's a nice pickup as well -- I agree the tree on 3 adds nothing.  I suppose it weighs on the decision of what to hit from the tee -- I think it's about 220 to get past the tree -- but I think if a player wants to lay back in the fairway to take advantage of the added fairway width, this tree should not possibly block them out.  Where's my saw?

On 8, it is not the angle that makes it less desirable, it is just that I prefer to approach from an elevated location.  Maybe some would prefer the lower fairway, but my choice would be the upper -- problem is that the tee shot to find the upper fairway must be so precise that I would never try it.


Mark, I enjoyed your excellent photo essay.  Absolutely love the art and crafts inspired clubhouse.  How is it inside?

Mike

Mike,

That was a dumb question.  You should know that most every club I visit is wise enough not to let me inside the clubhouse!

Robert Thompson

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2012, 02:25:28 PM »
Gents: The tree, before the recent changes, was in the middle of the fairway. The fairway shifted to the right to bring the revine on the right into play. And I agree it should have come down, but the membership is adding more trees on that side to save people from wayward shots from the range.

Interestingly, my favourite hole is 8, though I suspect the blind tee shot drives some crazy.



Guy,

That's a nice pickup as well -- I agree the tree on 3 adds nothing.  I suppose it weighs on the decision of what to hit from the tee -- I think it's about 220 to get past the tree -- but I think if a player wants to lay back in the fairway to take advantage of the added fairway width, this tree should not possibly block them out.  Where's my saw?

On 8, it is not the angle that makes it less desirable, it is just that I prefer to approach from an elevated location.  Maybe some would prefer the lower fairway, but my choice would be the upper -- problem is that the tee shot to find the upper fairway must be so precise that I would never try it.


Mark, I enjoyed your excellent photo essay.  Absolutely love the art and crafts inspired clubhouse.  How is it inside?

Mike

Mike,

That was a dumb question.  You should know that most every club I visit is wise enough not to let me inside the clubhouse!
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Ian Andrew

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 02:51:59 PM »
A few notes about Scarboro:

1.   Willie Park Jr. was originally hired to renovate the course but went home with his health failing
2.   Club hired Tillinghast on USGA recommendation (over Travis and someone else - Barker?)
3.   The original course was designed by George Cumming (pro from Toronto) and only the 19th green and 4th hole remain from that course.
4.   The 4th green was expanded to the front by double 25 years ago due to agronomics
5.   There was not a single bunker n the layout after Tillinghast due to a lack of money
6.   There was a plan drawn with bunkers that I found in 2006

About what you see:

1.   The 1st hole was altered to create room for the range
2.   The tree on the 3rd should go, there was a proposal to relocate the tees to the right but we could not get it approved.
3.   I hate the tree on the 3rd
4.   The 4th hole bunkers are left over from Cooke’s work, the proposal removed the bunkers and the decision was deferred to another year. We are now 5 years later! I was told last fall that we will get them done next year.
5.   The 7th is the best short four (285 yards) in Canada – most people I take there make five or six
6.   The lower fairway on the 8th is easier to “find.” For that reason the club has put the left greenside bunker back this fall. I preferred it without.
7.   Rebuilt greens are 13th and 17th
8.   14th was not done by Thompson as speculated for years
9.   15th – I once had three feet for birdie and played a bunker shot for my next! The green is wildly steep in front
10.   16th was the greatest change, we added the bunkers, the short grass in front of the green, the green in back and took ten feet off the width of the green. At 290 yards the hole was being overwhelmed by the longer ball.
11.   17th was once drivable in earliest Canadian Open
12.   The road on the 18th has always existed. It was gravel in Tilly’s time.
13.   The “pot” as you called it was original, it shows up everywhere from photos to aerials – it shows the edge of the green
14.   We tried to get the narrow rough strip out, but in a tournament a member putted to the 100 yard mark - twice. Without it a ball can hit the front and run all the way back – I like it – but I’ve yet to meet a committee that will approve the change.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:57:19 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 02:54:41 PM »
Original Hole before and work



The Other Alternative



John Mayhugh

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 03:10:59 PM »
14.   We tried to get the narrow rough strip out, but in a tournament a member putted to the 100 yard mark - twice. Without it a ball can hit the front and run all the way back – I like it – but I’ve yet to meet a committee that will approve the change.

Thanks for the comments, Ian.  That is some slope!

Nice tour, Mark.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 03:38:03 PM »

Mark, I enjoyed your excellent photo essay.  Absolutely love the art and crafts inspired clubhouse.  How is it inside?

Mike

Mike,

That was a dumb question.  You should know that most every club I visit is wise enough not to let me inside the clubhouse!

Mark, mea culpa.  I forgot that GCA.com gives us moochers the patina of credibility.

Kindest regards,

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Peter Pallotta

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 03:59:00 PM »
Thanks much, Mark -- another really good photo essay.  I hope one day to play Scarboro, not because I think it's a "great" course, but because I think it's a "good" one -- and I mean that as a compliment. 

Peter

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
Ian,

I also hate the tree(s) at #3; big time ;D

Are you saying that "the club" put the left greenside bunker in at #8 without your involvement? Just curious...

It's bizarre, following the interesting work you (and Gil) did at the other 17 holes there, at Scarboro, that the 4th was left untouched. I like the bunkerless proposal for that hole; it doesn't need bunkers, but does need some tweaking of the shape of the putting surface, I think.

Great work at Scarboro. I think the bunker style that was implemented is very fitting, in a simple, classic style that also presents some "real golf".

Cheers,

P.S. I should also add, for those who've not been to Scarboro, that it's a really neat place. A sporty course, with a really great clubhouse.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 04:43:18 PM by Jeff_Mingay »
jeffmingay.com

Ian Andrew

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2012, 04:48:46 PM »
Peter,

I had it inside my top 20 in the country long before I ever worked there.
Exceptional threes - best collection of short fours in the country.

I always thought it got hammered (in the ratings) for the 18th tee shot.

Sean Leary

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2012, 04:50:58 PM »
Mark,

Where is it exactly in Toronto?

Ian Andrew

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2012, 04:53:35 PM »
Are you saying that "the club" put the left greenside bunker in at #8 without your involvement?

Nope, I made a trip out this fall, just wish I didn't have to.
As you know with renovations and restorations, you don't get your way every time.

The delay in the 4th is largely due to the changes in the 4th green.

Ian Andrew

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 04:55:10 PM »
Where is it exactly in Toronto?

East side of the city, in the old borough of Scarborough, fairly close to Lake Ontario.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 06:51:43 PM »
Ian - I defer to your opinion of course, for many reasons.  But just to say: What do you think might be the 20th ranked courses in England? It could be Woking, or Rye or Kington, for example. Are those "great courses"?  (That's not a rhetorical question - I really don't know).  But whether the are or aren't, I know that many here whose opinion I respect say they are all very "good" courses.  And I guess what i was trying to say is I believe that, sometimes, a "good" course can be as good as, and even better than, a "great" course. For my tastes that is.  Scarboro seems to be one of those.

Peter

Sean_A

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2012, 11:07:58 AM »
I guess what i was trying to say is I believe that, sometimes, a "good" course can be as good as, and even better than, a "great" course. For my tastes that is.  Scarboro seems to be one of those.

Peter

Does this explain how folks can like course more than others which they know are better?

Mark

I recall Wayne doing a review of Scar some years ago and I remain impressed (a rarity for me where Tillinghast is concerned).  The only which stands out as quite odd are the bunkers on the par 3 with water, but then one is immediately with the cool looking 7th. 

I have to make it Toronto someday.  With the only hall of fame which matters as the showcase of the townt and the C(hard C!)indly Canucks one may prevail upon, it makes me wonder why I haven't already been there and dine that.

Thanks again Mark - this is the best looking course I have seen you profile.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Rob Rigg

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2012, 12:51:23 AM »
Mark,

Great tour! I played Scarberia (O snap!) way back in '95 - the work that Ian (and Gil?) have done on the course is pretty amazing because it looks a lot more compelling than I remember (in all fairness, my visit was a LONG time ago and for a tournament).

Scarboro is another example of the EXCEPTIONAL parkland classics around the Toronto area.

The short 4s look brilliant - it would be a fun track to visit again.

Nothing worse than a memory like that 18th tee shot to polish off the round though - very unfortunate - especially since it would be a solid finisher if you photo shopped the road/fence/etc. out.

Robert Thompson

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Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2012, 09:02:28 AM »
Peter: I think Scarboro is very good, but I don't think it ever quite achieves greatness.

I also think Ian is only partly right when he talks about the 18th holding the course back. I'd argue that many feel the previous three holes -- 15-17 -- all a run of short fours, also hurt the course. If it were the UK, this might be overlooked. But there's an expectation among many that a course can't limp in with holes that can be played with a three wood off the tee (or less in some instances).

Scarboro, however, does have some exceptional holes (#2, #5, #7, #8, #12) which is more than I can say for many other courses held in higher regard in Canada.



Ian - I defer to your opinion of course, for many reasons.  But just to say: What do you think might be the 20th ranked courses in England? It could be Woking, or Rye or Kington, for example. Are those "great courses"?  (That's not a rhetorical question - I really don't know).  But whether the are or aren't, I know that many here whose opinion I respect say they are all very "good" courses.  And I guess what i was trying to say is I believe that, sometimes, a "good" course can be as good as, and even better than, a "great" course. For my tastes that is.  Scarboro seems to be one of those.

Peter
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2012, 10:47:14 AM »
Robert - thanks.  To you and Ian and others who have played it, maybe a silly question:  are some/most/all of the short Par 4s at Scarboro  a feature of the original design intent, or have they un-intendedly become short 4s over the years as a result of technology?  As mentioned, I haven't played Scarboro, but I have played other courses with those two kinds of short Par 4s, and I think a golfer can and does "feel" the difference and does play (and appreciate) holes differently depending on whether the original intentions or technological change has made them what they are.

Peter

Ian Andrew

Re: Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast), Toronto, Canada - A Review
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2012, 12:14:49 PM »
Robert - thanks.  To you and Ian and others who have played it, maybe a silly question:  are some/most/all of the short Par 4s at Scarboro  a feature of the original design intent, or have they un-intendedly become short 4s over the years as a result of technology?  As mentioned, I haven't played Scarboro, but I have played other courses with those two kinds of short Par 4s, and I think a golfer can and does "feel" the difference and does play (and appreciate) holes differently depending on whether the original intentions or technological change has made them what they are.

The land has dictated the layout.
The lack of additional land has limited any ability to add length after Tilly (very few new tees longer than original tees).

With the ravine being so deep and narrow there were very few alternatives through the property.
Almost everything has to run with the valley or parallel to the valley.

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