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Rick Sides

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What do you think of this situation?
« on: December 28, 2011, 11:55:18 AM »
So recently I was looking at joining a club in NJ and I went into the pro shop and talked to a pro who gave me all information about joining and assured me there was no initiation, bond, upfront money etc.  I came back the next day  with an application completed and the head pro talked to me for about 20 minutes and said what a good addition I' d be to the club since I've been affiliated with golf and golf history for years.  The next thing he says is, "I just need a check for a thousand dollars." I asked him what the money was for.   He says I just want to have that money to cover a few payments.  Sensing my disgust with him, he says, how does 500 sound?  I quickly grabbed my application and said no thanks.  Is it normal for clubs to do this or was I wrong in getting angry that the man suddenly tried to negotiate a down payment without telling me upfront?

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2011, 01:04:08 PM »
Sounds odd, no doubt, but you talked to two different Pros at the club, and the Pro in the shop is not the Pro asking for the upfront money. That man probably has the title of Director of Golf.

There could have been a lack of understanding between these two. Some friends of mine ran into a situation where the Pro at a club they were thinking of joining told them the initiation fees would be waved if they were members at another club. They didn't ask, and he didn't tell them, that their 'membership' at a public course, really a 'season pass', did not qualify. They eventually joined, but were a bit upset at first.

The club in your example may have been offering a deal, like no initiation fees for joining in mid-summer, where they were deferring those membership fees to the next season in the hopes of picking up some dues payers for the present season. It's not unusual to see an offer like that, i.e, giving a player access-for-dues mid-season and with no other fees due until the next season. There are also clubs who are stretching out the time required to make an initiation payment. The Pro in the shop is reciting the present circumstances, i.e., no initiation fee mid-summer, but relying on anyone at a club other than the membership director to give you precise information can cause confusion and lead to upsetting outcomes.

The request for a down payment just seems to be badly handled, as I don't think I'd be willing to hand over 1k to a club so it could "pay some bills".
 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 01:51:53 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2011, 03:15:10 PM »
Jim,
It was very odd.  All the paper work claimed no initiation, bond, or money down.   And both pros told me that, but then for the head pro to just say I need a thousand dollars seemed like a bait and switch and certainly no club I'd want to be part of.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2011, 03:19:12 PM »
Sounds sketchy.  Even if it was just a misunderstanding or a lapse in communication.  This should never happen with regards to membership.  If there's 1 guy in charge of membership, then anyone else should simply refer you to that guy without giving seemingly firm details.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2011, 03:24:02 PM »
If there's 1 guy in charge of membership, then anyone else should simply refer you to that guy without giving seemingly firm details.

Agreed.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2011, 04:26:03 PM »
The pro sounds like a used car salesman. I agree with Jud-a little sketchy.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2011, 04:49:51 PM »
Seems odd, but so does going directly to the PGA Professional for membership information. Does the club have a membership director/General Manager/etc?

What kind of reputation does this club have?

I'm not entirely sure what  "money to cover a few payments" means though....who's payments? Yours? (Dues) or the Clubs? (Expenses).
H.P.S.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2011, 04:58:46 PM »
Not much to say the least. Sounds too bizarre to offer intelligible commentary.

Pete Blaisdell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 05:17:47 PM »
Rick
  After reading your post twice, I urge you to contact Bryan Jones, President of the NJ PGA Section at 973-209- 6075 and tell him your story. This was a shake down and has no place in this game or anywhere else in life.
' Golf courses are like wives and the prom queen doesn't always make for the best wife "

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 05:29:38 PM »
Some clubs ask members to prepay dues for a set time period (say six months).  It's possible, but unlikely, that he meant something along those lines.

WW

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 05:43:23 PM »
Let's be charitable.  Someone spoke out of turn/screwed up.  Won't be the last time.  If you like the course, can afford the dues, and it is convenient to you, what do you have to lose?  Typically when someone nickels and dimes me death, I head the other way.  But unless they're asking you to sign a contract, why not try it out when the weather clears?  The facts of life are that many clubs have to be aggressive to get and keep members, and that not a small number in the customer side of the business aren't ideally suited for the work (after hearing stories from a few GMs and HPs, I have to wonder why anyone would want to get into it). 

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 06:01:55 PM »
Pete,
Thanks for the info. I will give him a call.  It's funny because the club's website and all their paperwork say the same thing regarding no bond, initiation, upfront money etc. so I don't think the Asst Pro and Head Pro were mis-communicating.   I think the pro was also in charge of membership.  I just felt so insulted that the pro was deceptive to me and the fact that he would then ask me for money like he didn't trust me!  Well I guess all things work out in the end.  I'm so glad I didn't join. 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 10:49:48 PM »
Rick,

The Head Pro is rarely the conduit for admission.

The admission's committee is the conduit at the great majority of clubs.

I don't understand why you would discuss admissions with the Pro, other than on an information only basis.

At most clubs, the Pro has no authority when it comes to admissions, so you experience has me puzzled as well

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 10:56:39 PM »
I think $500 to join a golf club is like a hot date promiseing you sex in the car and then asks you to take her to taco bell for a $10.00 dinner and you get pissed. Everyone of us would have wasted a night and spent several hundred at any place she liked to spend the 2nd half the evening having a happy ending. You had a great deal. Oh and Pat is right on who talks membership at 995 of the clubs. I cannot believe I said Pat was right twice in 7 days.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 10:59:43 PM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 10:57:40 PM »
Rick, you report he said, " He says I just want to have that money to cover a few payments."  Like his car, boat, Visa, etc... ?
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Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 09:08:27 AM »
Pat,
I didn't understand that either.  I just went to turn the application into the pro shop and ask what to do next and then the head pro led me past the business office into his office and started talking to me.  I assumed he just wanted to chat, then ask me to go to the business department to handle proceedings, but suddenly  he hits me with this strange request for a thousand bucks!  The whole thing seemed sketchy from the start.  It was honestly like a bizarre shake down.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2011, 09:16:05 AM »
 8) you did say this was NJ... :o
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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2011, 09:21:37 AM »
That was what struck me...the nature of the payments.
If he meant yours, like a security deposit for an apartment, that makes sense. Anything else would be unseemly.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2011, 09:35:38 AM »

  I came back the next day  with an application completed and the head pro talked to me for about 20 minutes and said what a good addition I' d be to the club since I've been affiliated with golf and golf history for years. 


What does affiliated with golf and golf history for years mean?  Did you negotiate a special unpublished deal for yourself because of your affiliations?

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2011, 09:38:42 AM »
Rick,

Was this a member owned club or a corporate owned non-equity club?
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Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2011, 10:08:40 AM »
John, I didn't negotiate any deals, the price was what was published on their website and member application packet.  I did discuss with the pro that I have worked for golf courses for several years just to give him a bit of my background. The fact that he tried to hit me up for money after that was surprising because you would think he would know I thought the thousand dollar deposit to be sketchy.
Steve, I think it is a private owner.

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2011, 02:31:59 PM »
Rick,

There seems to be confusion all around and nothing seems to make any sense.

Before taking Pete's advice and calling the higher-ups in the NJ PGA Section, I would contact the club again to get a final word on their initiation policies, just so it's perfectly clear.  And if things still seem sketchy after that, then I would call the higher-ups and report.


Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2011, 03:25:54 PM »
or the pro could have an undiagnosed medical problem.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2011, 08:54:21 PM »
John, I didn't negotiate any deals, the price was what was published on their website and member application packet.  I did discuss with the pro that I have worked for golf courses for several years just to give him a bit of my background. The fact that he tried to hit me up for money after that was surprising because you would think he would know I thought the thousand dollar deposit to be sketchy.
Steve, I think it is a private owner.

Well. let's hope it was a sketchy deal,........... because if the pro followed protocol (and does have membership admission authority) and you still wanted to be a member, I'd say you're out of luck after bringing it to a public forum. ::) ::)
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Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What do you think of this situation?
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2011, 09:00:51 PM »
Jeff, Honestly I don't care how great the club might be, and its an okay club,I'd never want to be a member of the place.  If the club had initially said to me, "we require x amount of dollars up front, I'd have no problem with that.  However, when the club pro takes you into his office, then tries to shake you down for a grand, it is not a place I'd want to golf.