Best Holes by Architect: Tom Doak

[Jud_T]

While I agree with most of the holes nominated at Pac Dunes, Lost Dunes, Old Mac and Ballyneal,  one that hasn't been mentioned is #8 at Bahia de los Suenos.  Great short 4 at 325 that plays into the prevailing wind off the bay with an arroyo angling across the fairway that one has to decide whether to try to carry and a very interesting green.  There's also a hole at Legends Heathland with a very good elevated green that I liked a lot (18 I think).

[Kevin Pallier]

I thought I would resurrect this thread to see if anyone's opinions have changed overtime ie: seven years ? Plus to see if any new one's should be added ?

[Peter Flory]

Old Mac #3 is one of my favorite holes anywhere.  1-3 is such an amazing opening stretch.
Streamsong Blue #4 really stands out to me as well. 


I guess I'm a sucker for the heroic elements. 

[Michael George]

Since most holes have already been mentioned, I will list the most underrated holes at each course that I have played:


Pacific Dunes - #7 Just a wonderful, natural hole with a great green complex
Old Macdonald - #13  Maybe the best green complex at Old Mac and one of the most unique in his portfolio
Ballyneal - #16 The pass through the dunes makes for an incredible interesting 2nd shot; every shot matters on this par 5
Streamsong Blue - #2 Width before the recent width craze, yet still interesting, which width sometimes negates
Lost Dunes -  #2 - was this the first modern Alps designed? 

[Bob Montle]

My favorites TO PLAY were Dismal Red #9 and #18

[Kalen Braley]

In terms of a 3 hole stretch, I don't think I have a more favorite TD set than 14-16 at Rock Creek. 


All par 4s and all excellent...but yet play so different with varying yardages, shot requirements, and ways to play em!

[Jim Franklin]

In terms of a 3 hole stretch, I don't think I have a more favorite TD set than 14-16 at Rock Creek. 


All par 4s and all excellent...but yet play so different with varying yardages, shot requirements, and ways to play em!

Cart ride on 14 is really good  . But agree this is a wonderful stretch with 3 fantastic holes.

[Kalen Braley]

In terms of a 3 hole stretch, I don't think I have a more favorite TD set than 14-16 at Rock Creek. 


All par 4s and all excellent...but yet play so different with varying yardages, shot requirements, and ways to play em!

Cart ride on 14 is really good  . But agree this is a wonderful stretch with 3 fantastic holes.

I had forgot about that...I may have to dig up that pic for old times sake. 


But yes, so many terrific stretches out there, 9-11, 3-5, I don't think I would ever tire of RCCC!

[Matt Kardash]

Lost Dunes -  #2 - was this the first modern Alps designed?

Didn't Pete Dye design a bunch in the 80s?

[Eric LeFante]

I love 10 and 18 at Stonewall Old. I heard Tom speak about the Old, and those two holes were the only two that he really changed from the original Fazio routing I believe. He changed each to go in the opposite direction that Fazio laid out, and I think it was a brilliant move.


A lot of 18th holes climb uphill because club houses are placed in high points of the property. The 18th on the Old plays downhill, which makes it stand out amongst finishing holes.

[Kyle Harris]

Streamsong Blue - #2 Width before the recent width craze, yet still interesting, which width sometimes negates

FINALLY.

[Eric Smith]

I think the most interesting hole on the Red course at Dismal River is the par 4 7th. It is anything but a conventional hole, in the spirit of say a Rye 13 or Silloth 13, particularly from the back tees and especially when the wind is crossing!

[Ash Towe]

Tara Iti number 3.  Good par 4 with an amazing punchbowl green.


Tara Iti number 7.  Short part 4 with a number of different ways to play it. My favourite hole on this course.

[Adam_Messix]

I think Ash has the winner here....  7 at Tara Iti.  The most unique may be another #7, at Ballyneal.

[Thomas Dai]

Not sure when this was written/updated but it comes direct from Renaissance Golf Design -
https://www.renaissancegolf.com/279/rgds-best-holes
Atb

[Brett_Morrissy]

Thanks for revival of this one KP.


Last year I was lucky to have added Tara Iti to my group.


P3 - #17 -amazing hole around 150m as the shortest hole, bunkering, green contours, angle to the breeze. Love it.


Short P4 - #7 - agree with Ash, a great hole, challenging and offers loads of variety.


Med P4 - #1 - it is not quite drivable (for most), really great opening hole and again, the angles off the tee and into the raised benched green are memorable.


Long P4 - #3 (if I have to pick one) - for me, this hole is probably the one played in the largest variety of ways from the golfers....guessing.


P5 - toss up between #11 & #18 - at this stage, my preference is for the finishing hole, not long, but challenging to navigate your way to the really nice green site.

[Matthew Mollica]

Really nice suggestions Brett.
Agree with all of them.
So many holes to love at Tara Iti.
A wonderful opener. I loved 8 too!

[Adam Lawrence]

Streamsong Blue's seventeenth is one of my favourite par fives anywhere.

[Matthew Prince]

TD:


I know this is a seven year old post from you, but I just saw it. I am very interested in what you like so much about #8 at PD.


I love PD - one of my favorite courses I've played - but I have always considered #8 to be the weakest hole on the course. Dead flat and super wide, you can really drive it anywhere you want without significantly improving or reducing your advantage on the approach. I guess the green site is kind of cool with the banking around it, but it also allows for mishits into the green to often funnel down to the putting surface. I find PD to be an extremely strategically interesting course - on pretty much every tee box you need to think hard about where you want to end up - but I find #8 to be the exception to this rule. 


I don't mean this at all to be offensive, but rather to understand a little better what you like so much about this hole and what I am missing in my view of it.


Best,
Matt

What say you Tom Doak?
Which are your best (favorite) holes?

Pete:

Yes, I'm on record on our web site, but it's nice to see so many different holes nominated by others, and to hear the reasoning for the selections.

I've always told golf writers that I have two kinds of favorite holes.

The first kind are the holes like the 13th at Pacific Dunes, or the 8th at Ballyneal, or the soon-to-be 3rd at Dismal River.  These were just laying there waiting for me to find them; but, once you've found them, there really isn't too much to do or to be proud of.

The other kind are holes like the 18th at Stonewall (Old course), or the 8th at Pacific Dunes, or the 7th at Ballyneal, where I didn't know exactly what we were going to do when we started building those courses.  I'm really the proudest of holes like those, where after a long period of staring at them, something clicked in my brain and we wound up with something really good that I never expected.

I'm surprised that no one has picked a hole from Lost Dunes yet, either.  I've got several favorites there.

[Sean_A]

I have only seen one TD course, but I reckon the RC's 8th is an excellent hole despite the narrowed fairway.





Ciao

[Nicolas Joakimides]

Hello,


My favorite is Streamsong 16th.


I played two rounds on the blue and I had to hit a 3 wood for both rounds and I especially like to play left and see the ball coming back on the green !
 
(I really like to hit a driver, 3wood or 5 woods towards a flag , and of course to design such holes...)


NJ

[Kyle Harris]

Hello,


My favorite is Streamsong 16th.


I played two rounds on the blue and I had to hit a 3 wood for both rounds and I especially like to play left and see the ball coming back on the green !
 
(I really like to hit a driver, 3wood or 5 woods towards a flag , and of course to design such holes...)


NJ

Love that this thread has illuminated two of the most unappreciated holes at Streamsong.

[John Foley]

The Loop Red # 2 - love how the green site sits and how if you are at all right of the line to the green your approach is soo much tougher.


Streamsong Blue # 5 - sucker for a well designed short par 3 and it's about as good as it gets w/ the knob front, short bunker / drop off left and that back right bowl. Could play that hole forever. Also really liked #6.

[Michael Pelliccione]

The 7th at Ballyneal (aka E green).   Can't think of a hole that offers you more variety off the tee box that ends with one of the most diabolical green complexes out there...   Back right pin location surely will lead to a double if you try and go for it!

[Garland Bayley]

TD:


I know this is a seven year old post from you, but I just saw it. I am very interested in what you like so much about #8 at PD.


I love PD - one of my favorite courses I've played - but I have always considered #8 to be the weakest hole on the course. Dead flat and super wide, you can really drive it anywhere you want without significantly improving or reducing your advantage on the approach. I guess the green site is kind of cool with the banking around it, but it also allows for mishits into the green to often funnel down to the putting surface. I find PD to be an extremely strategically interesting course - on pretty much every tee box you need to think hard about where you want to end up - but I find #8 to be the exception to this rule. 


I don't mean this at all to be offensive, but rather to understand a little better what you like so much about this hole and what I am missing in my view of it.


Best,
Matt

Some of the more memorable holes I've built which fall into the "flash of inspiration" category (where I wasn't sure at first how they would turn out, but then made a key decision later) include a lot of my best holes


High Pointe 13
Stonewall Old 18
Ballyneal 7
Barnbougle 4
Pacific Dunes 8
Old Mac 7 & 8


These are not all "original" ideas - for example the 7th at Ballyneal is loosely based on the 7th at Crystal Downs.  But it wasn't planned that way; I had to stare at the green site for several days before I realized that would be the perfect solution for it.

Garland:  I chose the 8th because I had no idea what to create there at the start of construction and then the idea for it came in a flash later on.  I know most people wouldn't single out that as one of the best holes, though I am personally quite fond of it.


By contrast, #7 was pretty obvious once we found the mounded features in front of the green, and #9 was more of a necessity, the only reasonable way I saw to get to #10 tee.