[Brian Walshe]

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for posting your tour of Moonah.  Couple of thoughts.  You are using the distances from the Black tees which get probably less than 1% of the play.  They are only used in Monthly Medal rounds and then only for A Grade (less than 9 handicap).  The vast majority of play is from the Blue tees.  That makes a big difference for holes like 13 which goes from 170m down to around 150m.  13 is normally around 7 iron for me which makes it a little more user friendly than say 4 iron.  I wasn't a fan of 13 to start with but it has grown on me.  Whilst blind it you do get a look at the pin position from the 7th green and there is a lot of short grass around the green itself.  The pin to watch out for is the back one in which case anything left leaves you with an extremely difficult up and down.

I was interested in your opening comment that some people don't think the fairway bunkering is that relevant.  I'm not sure that is correct.  There isn't a lot of it but what there is tends to be well positioned.  What Harrison has done is use the land forms to set up the drives rather than over bunkering the course.  It's a lot more subtle than the eye candy of bunkers and on such a windy site works well.  On 1 the slope of the land past about 220m feeds the ball left away from the preferred place to attack the green from which is the right side.  The longer you drive it on 1 the more chance you'll end up near dead left near the front Moonah tree.  On 3 the diagonal ridge dictates the drive line.  People talk about width and allowing golfers to make choices.  Moonah does that and holes like 4 are all the better for it.  You can go right over the dune and have an approach up the line of the green.  Personally I find it much better to go at the green from the left edge of the fairway and use the bank to the right of the green to feed the ball to the pin.  If you try that from the right side it tends to kick the ball forward as well which brings the back trap into play.

Interestingly the couple of tees added since it opened have been to the right of the existing tees, on 5 and 7.  12 is another hole where as you point out, the tee would work much better if it was 15m right of where it is today and gave you a look up the fairway thru the saddle.

[Mark_F]

What Harrison has done is use the land forms to set up the drives rather than over bunkering the course.  It's a lot more subtle than the eye candy of bunkers and on such a windy site works well.  On 1 the slope of the land past about 220m feeds the ball left away from the preferred place to attack the green from which is the right side.  The longer you drive it on 1 the more chance you'll end up near dead left near the front Moonah tree. 

Brian,

Doesn't the first set up ass backwards?



As the above image shows, you can quite clearly see the fairway on the right from the tee, yet the more difficult blind drive over the dune offers the worse line in.

[Kyle Henderson]

Hi Kyle,

You are using the distances from the Black tees which get probably less than 1% of the play.  They are only used in Monthly Medal rounds and then only for A Grade (less than 9 handicap).  The vast majority of play is from the Blue tees.  That makes a big difference for holes like 13 which goes from 170m down to around 150m.  This is undoubtedly true, but my impression was that wind conditions would generally be far more influential on scores than the choice between the blue or black tees on a hole such as the 13th. Is it possible to stop a shot on the 13th green with a 20mph tail wind?

I was interested in your opening comment that some people don't think the fairway bunkering is that relevant.  I'm not sure that is correct.  There isn't a lot of it but what there is tends to be well positioned.  What Harrison has done is use the land forms to set up the drives rather than over bunkering the course.  It's a lot more subtle than the eye candy of bunkers and on such a windy site works well.  I'm with you, but I heard those comments from more than one "GCA nerd," so I thought I might throw it out there to elicit discussion.

Thanks for chiming in, amigo.

[Kyle Henderson]

Brian,

Doesn't the first set up ass backwards?

As the above image shows, you can quite clearly see the fairway on the right from the tee, yet the more difficult blind drive over the dune offers the worse line in.

MF,

Good catch, though it might be countered that it's not exactly easy to keep a ball on the right side of the fairway or to lay back to the correct distance when the breezes are in play. A choice between an easy angle (from the right) or a shorter shot (down the left) doesn't seem totally backwards.

I need to play the hole a couple of dozen more times to offer any kind of informed opinion, so hopefully Brian will indulge us.

[Mark_F]

I need to play the hole a couple of dozen more times to offer any kind of informed opinion, so hopefully Brian will indulge us.

Kyle,

Brian has made 224 posts in ten years, so it could be a while before we have an answer.

You are doing just fine.

[Matthew Mollica]

Speaking of tees moving to the right - 16 and 17 tees could move up and to the right, and may offer an improved play.

MM

[Brian Walshe]

Kyle,

The 13 tends to be a crosswind rather than downwind.  If it is downwind there is 10m of ground between the bunker and the start of the green, 30m of green plus the dune at the back tends to stop you going too far thru. I've only ever seen one person beat all that and go thru the lot.

Mark,

The fariway falls from right to left, more so the further you hit it.  The hardest side to drive the ball is the right so to me I don't see and issue with allowing people to see that.  The left is blind but it's a huge area with no hazards so the blindness is hardly a penalty given the size of the area you have to hit the ball.  At 180m you have 50m of fairway width and 85m from end of first cut to end of first cut.  The cool feature of the hole for me is how it lures big hitters into bombing it down there only for them to find that they have an extremely difficult short pitch, over a bunker to a green that slightly slopes away at the back.  Getting the ball in the best spot off the tee is about the right club and line.  If the more difficult right side off the tee was blind as well then I'm not sure it would work.

[Brett_Morrissy]

In a recent round, my host SMASHED Driver off the Blues. Ended deep left with a few metres of FW and a dinky 30-40m chip to a front pin, ended up in left bunker. And bogie to start (3hcper).
I hit 3 w so I could stay on the upper RHS FW, as Brian says, a straight fwd shot (maybe 120-130m) down the spine of the green.

And I don't mind hitting 3W off the first.

I like the hole, but have played it a lot, hate 13.

[Kyle Henderson]

14th hole: 422 meters. Par 4.

The 14th fairway sits atop a natural ridge, lending some nice variety to a course that predominantly occupies small valleys – the 6th being the other most notable exception. Long drives must contend with a gradually narrowing landing zone.


Within 150 meters of the green, the fairway dives before climbing again to reach the 14th green  -- as mentioned earlier, the putting surface here is shared with the 6th. Remember that left pins play a club longer than those on the right, and that right pins may be perilously near  to golfers playing their outward nine.

[Brian Walshe]

Kyle,

For mine 14 is the worst hole on the course.  The club's desire to have a double green on each course resulted in 6 and 14, both of which would have been better had there been a choice of green site.  The area short and right of the greenside dune on 6, towards the 15th tee would have made 6 more interesting and the 14th green would have been better without the need to connect to the 6.  The major issue for the double green is that the best way to get the ball onto the 14th is sling it in from the right side, about where people are when putting to a back pin on 6.  The front right bunker on 14 means you really can't run the ball in and it's only there to stop long approaches on 6 from trickling down the 14th fairway.  From memory they moved more dirt on 14 than any other hole.

If only Harrison had known that the attempt at a double green on Ocean (6 and 11) would fail so badly they'd give it away and separate the greens he wouldn't have had to connect 6 and 14.

[Scott Warren]

Brian,

Why was the club keen for a double green on each course?

[Brian Walshe]

Scott,

They already had a double green on Old - 5 and 9 then or 10 and 14 in the new order.  I think they thought each course having a double would be a nice little distinctive feature for the club so my understanding is that it was in the design brief for the two "new" courses.  Harrison came up with 6 and 14 and if you look at the original large map that came out with the prospectus, 7 and 11 on Ocean.

Perhaps one of the reasons that 13 on Moonah is a little unloved is that originally 9 and 13 were a cross over which the club nixed so both holes had to be changed pretty late in the piece. 

[Mark_F]

I think they thought each course having a double would be a nice little distinctive feature for the club so my understanding is that it was in the design brief for the two "new" courses. 

Seriously? Couldn't they have just bought a couple more windmills and plonked one each on Old and Ocean?

[Kyle Henderson]

MF,

That's pure gold.


While there are several good reasons for such an arrangement in St. Andrews, the  double green concept seems horribly forced on such an expansive property as at The National.

Sir Walshe, I remember you vocalizing your distaste for the 14th during our round, but I do not recall your opinion of the 6th. Do you find the 14th to be appreciably worse?

[Kyle Henderson]

15th hole: 524 meters. Par 5.

With a tee shot played into an S-shaped valley, players will hope for a forward kick to bring the green within reach.
 

Most mortals will need to lay up, but those able to do so nearest the inside of the left turn pictured will face the easiest third shot  (still uphill, but with a gap between fronting bunkers and an available back stop).

[Brian Walshe]

Kyle,

Double greens are a rarity in Australia and the members all love the double on Old, hence the interest in them.  At least they said no to the cross over that was proposed    

I don't like 14 and never have.  It's a long hole yet the way the green sets up you really have to fly the ball all the way to the green, it's near impossible to run it in.  The double green actually doesn't work to give you more pin positions but seemingly less, if the pin goes too far right you'll have issues with 6.  The green itself, and in particular the approach for 14 is compromised by having to try and keep anything long on 6 from going thru onto the 14th fairway.  If that front right bunker went  then 14 would be better but more balls from 6 would end up on the 14th fairway.  In the end 14 feels the most manufactured hole to me and lack a some of the interesting little movement on other fairways.

6 I actually like.  Depending on the pin you have to pick which side of the fairway you come in from.  Downwind you can hit it into the gully in front of the green, which I'm happy to do to a front pin.  6 is probably the most difficult approach on the course, particularly the back left shelf, but then most times it's 9 iron or less.  A little like 1 it can lure the big hitter into hitting driver when the smart play might be 3 iron or 3 wood to get the right side and spot in the fairway and leave yourself a full shot.  There are plenty of other opportunities for the bombers to cut loose, one that requires a little thought is a good thing.

[Tyler Kearns]

10th hole: 374 meters. Par 4.
Playing past a preexisting windmill to a small valley, the 10th fairway is another ample target, but different pin locations on the multi-tiered green will often be best approached from a specific side of playing corridor.
 

Viewed from 150 meters away (position “x”), the green contours can already be distinguished. Side boards abound once again, for use by creative players from the school of Seve.

Kyle,

When I played the Moonah, I think 3 of 4 approaches on #10 utilized the side and back boards to nestle balls close to the hole. In fact, it was here where Paul Daley's buddy, and most importantly, not my partner that day, holed out for the second consecutive time for back-to-back eagle 2's.

TK

[Kyle Henderson]

16th hole: 447 meters. Par 4.

I was quite pleased to make a 3 here from the 422-meter tees, splitting the left-to-right sloping fairway between bilateral fairway bunkers


From an uneven lie, a long piercing approach is needed (particularly in a headwind) to reach an elevated green that slopes mainly from back to front.

[Kyle Henderson]

17th hole: 204 meters. Par 3.
The penultimate hole continues the sequence of stout tests that close out the round. Players are faced with a rightward-falling green that is  quite deep and has its back half surrounded by sand traps, but the front is open for running approaches.
 

[Kyle Henderson]

Hole 18: 412 meters. Par 4.

A scene to savor before the final tee shot.
 

There’s more space than one can see from the tee.


Thread a long ball through the scattered Moonah trees.


A final skillful strike must find a narrow, elongated green beneath the overstated clubhouse.

[Patrick Kiser]

Kyle,

As always, great tour.  Double greens and windmills aside, this still looks really good to me.  Next time perhaps ... because there has to be a return visit at some point. 

[Mark_F]

Kyle,

As always, great tour. 

Seconded.  Excellent work once again, Kyle. Thanks for taking the time.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kiser,

You need to play at The National, mainly to play with Brian and The Judge. Just make sure The Old Course isn't closed that day.

Fergie,
Thanks for chiming in and rousing a bit of discussion. It's a pity the rains ruined my chance for decent photos from Peninsula, but thankfully you've provided some gems from your personal stash over the years.

[Brian Walshe]

Kyle,

Is that the day Judge got lost getting to the 1st tee and emerged from the left rough carrying his clubs and pull cart?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Kyle,
Thanks also mate, the pic tours take so much time, much appreciated!
It's great to see you got so much out of your trip to downunder!

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