Fantastic New Article about Coore & Crenshaw

[Chip Gaskins]

Having played 11 of C&C's courses I am a self professed fanboy....I just love what these guys build.  What a great read!

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/favorite_designers_bill_coore

A few snippets

"There was no talk of a partnership, but the two stayed in touch. By the end of 1985 it was obvious to everyone except the two men they really should go into business together. "We had lunch with Rod Whitten of Golf Digest, who asked what the name of our company was going to be," says Coore. "But we honestly hadn't spoken about it and were kind of caught unawares by the question. Eventually Ben spoke up, saying it would be called Coore & Crenshaw. That just says so much about Ben. What other star player would put his name second?"

"Other architects were considered for the job - Pete Dye whom Youngscap had hired in 1982 for a course in Lincoln called Firethorn, and Jack Nicklaus. But in the end Coore believes the developer chose the company he felt would be least intrusive."

"He (Youngscap) asked his architects if this was really what they wanted to do. "Yeah Dick, I'm afraid so. It's just better this way," Coore replied. Youngscap joked that he had given Coore and Crenshaw their pick of the 11,000 acres but still couldn't find the full course. "

"But even though the partners had vowed to work on two or maybe three courses a year tops, it was a disappointing and fairly ignominious start. "Ron Whitten said we were the first architects to form a partnership and retire before opening a single course," says Coore. "

[Ross Harmon]

Just got done reading that myself... great article indeed!

[Tim Martin]

Chip-Thanks for the link. I can`t remember reading a more interesting article in recent memory. Very insightful.

[George Pazin]

Fantastic article, many thanks for the link, Chip.

Listening to Bill Coore speak at Hidden Creek remains one of the highlights of my golf life. I remember talking to him about Oakmont, and he said, with awe, we couldn't build greens like those. A better combination of humility and talent you will never find, imho.

"Every morning and every evening, I'd walk over what eventually became the first, second, 17th and 18th holes and wonder why on earth we weren't using that ground," says Coore who naturally broached the subject with Keiser and Howard McKee, the resort's planner and architect. "Mike could have said no, but he considers all his options wisely and agreed to the idea of using what dunes we could."

I found this part especially interesting, given recent criticisms of the 18th on here. I also think the section of the article on BT is perhaps the most illuminating in the article.

Thanks again, Chip, excellent find. Makes me wish my own total of C&C courses were greater than 1!

[Ronald Montesano]

"Hot Rod" Whitten? When did he change the consonant?

[Bill Brightly]

Thanks for posting, Chip. I liked this quote from Coore about teaming up with Crenshaw:

"... as the day went on, it became apparent we were compatible, had similar personalities and shared an opinion on what made a golf course enjoyable."

What a great design goal to share.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Very well done, Tony.

I think that's the first article I've read about Bill that really details his entrance into the business of golf architecture in an interesting fashion. Great read.

[Tony Dear]

Thank you everyone for the very kind remarks. I am genuinely flattered. It was so enjoyable researching it. I spoke with Bill on the phone for four hours. To paraphrase his quote about Crenshaw - I think that says a lot about Bill. And, like Tom D. says, he is not only the most talented designer but the most humble as well.

[Lou Cutolo]

Tony,
great job a very enjoyable read

Lou

[Mike Nuzzo]

Great work Tony
thank you

I found the fact of Mr. Dye's success prior to golf revealing
He had the freedom to do what he wanted and he really wanted to design courses
It also explains why he didn't answer the phones on the first ring

Cheers

[Jim_Kennedy]

Thanks for posting the article Chip.

Tony Dear wrote that "Coore had envisioned a career as a professor of Classical Mythology", so I guess he's only ever had the one career.       

[Peter Pallotta]

My thanks too, Tony - very well done. And as Jeff notes, the fist time I've gotten a clear picture of Bill Coore's steps into the profession.  Even more interesting for me were the facts that he was an accomplished golfer, and that Classical Mythology was his area of study. "The Golf Course of A Thousand Contours", eh?  

Thanks again for a very good read.

Peter

Edit: Jim K and I often seem to have similar ideas and tastes in golf course. So how come he's such a better golfer than me?

[JC Jones]

My thanks too, Tony - very well done. And as Jeff notes, the fist time I've gotten a clear picture of Bill Coore's steps into the profession.  Even more interesting for me were the facts that he was an accomplished golfer, and that Classical Mythology was his area of study. "The Golf Course of A Thousand Contours", eh?  

Thanks again for a very good read.

Peter

Edit: Jim K and I often seem to have similar ideas and tastes in golf course. So how come he's such a better golfer than me?

Talent?

[Carl Nichols]

I'll add my praise -- really enjoyable and informative article, Tony. 

[Shane Wright]

Tony - excellent article and a very thorough read. 

Chip - thanks so much for sharing.

I learned a ton from the article....didn't realize that Coore had done work at Prairie Dunes.  I will be fascinated to watch the evolution of some of these special golf courses and see their place in history, several decades from now, God willing.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks Chip!

[Jim Briggs]

Chip - Thanks for posting

Tony - Great piece.  Me and my family are fortunate to play play to play a C&C design often and we have always been intrigued by how they go about their work, particuarly Bill when it comes to routing.  I've yet to come across anything related to Bill which would suggest an ounce of arrogance.  Seems to be a genuinely humble guy.  Thanks for the piece.

Jim

[George Freeman]

Great article Tony! 

I knew a lot of it but I have never read such a complete piece about the architecture career of C&C.

Thanks for posting Chip!

[Tony Dear]

Here's something I found quite interesting. I broached the subject of a possible second Golden Age with David Kidd last month - http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/favorite_designers_david_mclay_kidd. He said maybe but probably not in the US if it ever did happen - and who'd know it was happening at the time anyway? When I asked Bill about it, he just brushed it away (politely, of course). My contact with Ben was via email so it was hard to tell but I suspect his immediate reaction was much the same as Bill's.
If I was one of the architects involved I probably wouldn't comment either, but I'm in a position to speculate at least.
With designers like C&C, Tom D., Jim U., Gil H., Kyle P., Jeff M., Mike C., Dave Z., Dan H, (and several others) bucking the trend (well, I think they may have bucked it at last), do you think this era will be regarded as a second Golden Age (or by some other name), in 100 years?

[Bill Brightly]

do you think this era will be regarded as a second Golden Age (or by some other name), in 100 years?

I definitely think so. Both in terms of the new courses built in the era, and also in how many great architects worked to restore classic old courses.

[Peter Pallotta]

One of the many things the article brings to mind is that there are many paths to get where you want to go -- IF you knew where that is.  From what I can tell, somewhere along the line -- and it sounds that in part, perhaps even mainly, through books and study -- Bill Coore developed a vision for what golf courses should be....and then kept hold of that vision through what sounds like a period of 'low-level' (for lack of a better word) jobs and some work in related fields (related to pure design, that is --eg maintenance).  I think it was the great jazz trumpeter Roy Elridge who, in referencing his early years of blazing technique and having all the tools in the book, said: "I was talking a whole lot, but I wasn't saying anything".  Nothing can replace having something to say.

Peter

[William_G]

thanks Tony and Chip...

interesting stuff on Bill's walks at the future Bandon Traiils

[Chip Gaskins]

Wow, no need to thank me.  I had no idea that Tony Dear was a member of the site.  Kudos to him for a fantastic piece.

Great work Tony.  As you can see many of us had not heard some of the details on how Bil Coore got into this business.  Great work bringing out the things that make us love his (their) courses.  Nice work!

Please keep up the great interviews.  Long form journalism is alive and well!

Look me up for a beer(s) if you are every in the golf course architecture devoid place of Washington DC.

[Carl Rogers]

Reading between the lines, you realize that their early clients at the the beginning of their design carriers, had to take a leap of faith on an unproven contrarian idea (and people).

Is it similar to being a writer, you write 50 stories before someone in a position to really help you "stumbles" across some of your work?

[Tom_Doak]

Carl:

In busy periods, it is not so hard to find a client willing to take a chance on an unproven talent [who is willing to work cheap].  Many of the clients are dreamers themselves, so it is easy for them to share in the dream of a young person who wants to be an architect.

It's much harder to KEEP finding those clients [the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th] after the novelty wears off, but before you've really established yourself as a star.