Pinehurst #2 and the USGA in 2014

[Ben Sims]

I am afraid of what will happen to Pinehurst #2 in 2014.  I haven't been yet, but by all accounts the transformation has been drastic and something to champion for the future of maintenance melds. 

Is there a chance that it will toned down for the USGA's flagship tournament?  Does much of the progress of the extensive and effective restoration look to be erased for "fairness" or to maintain a more "normal" look?

[Adam Lawrence]

I can't see it. The USGA has been in the loop all the way through the project, and Mike Davis has gone on record saying how impressed he is.

[jeffwarne]

I am afraid of what will happen to Pinehurst #2 in 2014.  I haven't been yet, but by all accounts the transformation has been drastic and something to champion for the future of maintenance melds. 

Is there a chance that it will toned down for the USGA's flagship tournament?  Does much of the progress of the extensive and effective restoration look to be erased for "fairness" or to maintain a more "normal" look?

Heck no Ben,
Just grow a little rough to define fairways and hand rake all sand (then make it waste area)

oh and move a tee up to the ladies tee

[PCCraig]

I'm guessing the USGA, the resort, and C&C were communicating throughout the entire process. Depending on weather, I'm going to guess that the scores will actually be higher this time around. Why? The minimal rough wasn't much of a hazard for the Tour pros (especially with the old grooves), and the "grip it and rip it" set might have a hard time with the new sandy scrub if they start spraying their tee shots. And the greens have a habit of defending themselves pretty well.

[Adam Lawrence]

No guessing, they were. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw9L47WqEug.

Mike Davis: "My mouth literally falls open when I see the incredible work that they've done. I've got to say, I'm so excited about 2014 because it's going to be a very unique U.S. Open."

(although a man of his importance ought to know better than to use the horror phrase that is 'very unique')

[Mike Nuzzo]

I'm with you Adam
I prefer "extra unique".
It is even more unique than unique, very unique and even extreme uniqueness.
Cheers

[Ben Sims]

I'm not convinced.  Chambers Bay saw its share of changes for the US Am.  I understand the USGA's and in particular Mike Davis' desire to be edgy, but at what level are they willing to take it.  Picture evidence would support an argument that Pinehurst #2, as it stands today, is as different a golf course as the USGA has played in some time.

[Andy Troeger]

Anyone know if they plan to plant more wire-grass to make those areas more hazardous? As of a month ago, a lot of places were just hard-packed sand and very playable. The greens and pin placements will defend the course well enough, but there wasn't much penalty for me being off the fairway--I don't see the pros having much trouble with it either.

[PCCraig]

I'm not convinced.  Chambers Bay saw its share of changes for the US Am.  I understand the USGA's and in particular Mike Davis' desire to be edgy, but at what level are they willing to take it.  Picture evidence would support an argument that Pinehurst #2, as it stands today, is as different a golf course as the USGA has played in some time.

Ben,

What did the USGA do to Chambers Bay for the US Am other than dry it out to play super F&F? Granted they are changing the course prior to the Open in 2015, but then again CB is a new design.

[Michael George]

I'm not convinced.  Chambers Bay saw its share of changes for the US Am.  I understand the USGA's and in particular Mike Davis' desire to be edgy, but at what level are they willing to take it.  Picture evidence would support an argument that Pinehurst #2, as it stands today, is as different a golf course as the USGA has played in some time.

The USGA was very involved in the renovation.  As told to me by someone close to Pinehurst, the defense of #2 is and always will be its greens and the USGA's defense in 2014 will be the greens.

[Craig Disher]

Anyone know if they plan to plant more wire-grass to make those areas more hazardous? As of a month ago, a lot of places were just hard-packed sand and very playable. The greens and pin placements will defend the course well enough, but there wasn't much penalty for me being off the fairway--I don't see the pros having much trouble with it either.

The answer seems to be yes. Two weeks ago mounds of sand had been dumped in the rough on the left side of the 18th fairway; same along the left of 16. I expect the next time I see the course those areas will have been graded and planted with more wiregrass. The difficulty of the course will be heavily influenced by the density of grass planting in the sandy waste areas. Previously the planting on the left of 18 was pretty thin.

[Ben Sims]

I'm not convinced.  Chambers Bay saw its share of changes for the US Am.  I understand the USGA's and in particular Mike Davis' desire to be edgy, but at what level are they willing to take it.  Picture evidence would support an argument that Pinehurst #2, as it stands today, is as different a golf course as the USGA has played in some time.

Ben,

What did the USGA do to Chambers Bay for the US Am other than dry it out to play super F&F? Granted they are changing the course prior to the Open in 2015, but then again CB is a new design.

I may be combining things there.  But they are making changes. 

[Terry Lavin]

They'll probably push it to the very edge of F&F, especially around the greens, in an effort to defend par.  They came awfully close to a problem situation at Pebble Beach, but I'm optimistic that they'll find the right setup calculus to ensure a memorable championship.  They usually do...

[Peter Pallotta]

I don't know, Ben. You may be right to be concerned, but I find that one thing a lot of succesful people have in common is that they are excellent communicators -- they speak naturally and clearly but always manage to stay on point/on message.  In that context, I think Mike Davis chose exactly the word (and message) he wanted when he said the 2014 would prove to be a "unique" Open.  I think he expects players and fans alike to be much impressed and pleased with Pinehurst, and for the "good news story" to be its uniqueness.

Peter

[John Shimp]

They are making it more "unique" as we speak.  More grass is being scrapped and sand/wire grass replaced.  Examples are right of 7 green, left of 8 fairway, and hole 18.  They are also making some tee changes.  One significant one was adding a tee box behind the cart path on hole 5.  One excellent player who played the North South this summer told me that he thought then needed more wire grass and smaller landing areas or the pros would kill it as it now stands.  That said the greens were slower this summer, etc.  I don't know what else if anything they are planning between now and then only what I saw two weeks ago when the course was shutdown.

[Michael George]

They'll probably push it to the very edge of F&F, especially around the greens, in an effort to defend par.  They came awfully close to a problem situation at Pebble Beach, but I'm optimistic that they'll find the right setup calculus to ensure a memorable championship.  They usually do...

Terry, I think you are exactly right.  Firm and fast, which will make it very difficult to hold those greens.   

[Bruce Wellmon]

Terry, I think you are exactly right.  Firm and fast, which will make it very difficult to hold those greens.   

Will be interesting to see what the Women's Open will face, week #2.

[George Freeman]

Fast and firm fixes everything.

If they have those fairways really rolling and bouncing, it won't matter how wide they are, especially if the scrub plays as a true hazard.  Remember Tiger's one driver performance while winning the 2006 Open at Hoylake?  Length will need to be given up for control.

And they can make the course as impossible as they want by firming up those greens.  If #2 plays like Pebble from a conditioning standpoint, I'm not sure anyone will break par.

Just pray for dry weather.  I'm REALLY looking forward to it.

[Pete Blaisdell]

I think that what Michael and Terry said in their posts is really all that is necessary concerning #2 and the National Open. Pretty cut and dried (excuse the pun). It will be a memorable Open. The renovations are spectacular , well planned and carried out.

[Adam Clayman]

Andy, as of early October, they still had 30,000 wire grass plants to plant. they are shooting for a formula of 3/1. For every 3 balls that find the sandy scrub areas, 1 of them will have at least one issue to deal with. the wire grass plants or pine straw, or both.

If someone thinks a really low round will mean the course is inferior, has their priorities all cocked up.

[George Freeman]

If someone thinks a really low round will mean the course is inferior, has their priorities all cocked up.

100% agree with that.  Just not sure how many casual golfers/golf fans would say the same.

There was definitely some of that going on at Congressional after Rory lit it up (I am neither promoting nor berating the architectural qualities of Congressional).

[Andy Troeger]

Andy, as of early October, they still had 30,000 wire grass plants to plant. they are shooting for a formula of 3/1. For every 3 balls that find the sandy scrub areas, 1 of them will have at least one issue to deal with. the wire grass plants or pine straw, or both.

If someone thinks a really low round will mean the course is inferior, has their priorities all cocked up.

That seems like a reasonable combination/goal. Its not there yet in all places--I hit it left on 18 and my caddie basically said "good shot." The scrub areas are more challenging closer to the green...with a sand wedge the shot was much harder. With a 6-iron, the hard-packed sand almost played like low-cut fairways. I'm not worried about what the pros shoot, but to achieve the stated goals it would seem that there's got to be enough "hazard" to those areas to make the pros feel like there's some risk with going in there.

[David Stewart]

Are there concerns about spectators trampling down wire grass and/or leaving large footprints in the sand? Will the ropes have to be pushed farther back than usual?

[Willie_Dow]

David -

I'm somewhat concerned over crowd control, and ropes and stakes.  Perhaps the USGA is looking more and more at grandstand coverage than behind the rope crowd movement.

Don't know the answer.

Willie

[Mark Johnson]

One very important thing to consider.

Remember the Mens and Women's open will be played back to back.    Question for the Superintendants out there,   How much can you really slow down the course without any real downtime?

Look at the vast difference in how Oakmont played for both Opens,  not sure sure a change could be made so quickly.