Restorations & renovations gone wrong

[Ally Mcintosh]

I've had a request from outside the site to ask the following questions:

How many of you have had experience of renovations & restorations at clubs you are familiar with?... How many of these clubs were happy with the results and crucuially, do you you know any examples of clubs that weren't happy with the results and what they did to rectify the problem?... e.g who paid the bill for any rework?... New architect appointed? etc...

Thanks

[Alex Lagowitz]

I understand that this is probably not the answer you are looking for, but here is an example to ponder on.
Sleepy Hollow has had many many architects build and renovate the course.
These include CBM, Tom Winton, AWT, and a few more including the recent renevations.  It seems to me that the membership was never happy with the course they had, and thus continued to hire different architects to redo the course.  In this case, you have to beware that multiple design techniques are not blended and that you chose one style and stick with it.

If a proposed redesign, renovation, or restoration was not favorable, it would be hard to back track and start over.

[Joel_Stewart]

I think there are a lot of examples.  Two that come to mind are:

Los Angeles CC.  Work was performed maybe 5 or 6 years ago and the club then brought in Gil Hanse to restore the course completely.  

Cal Club.  Another situation where they did a lot of tree work and then 5 years later brought in Kyle Phillips to do a major renovation.

I think both of these clubs tried to put band aids on the courses and recognized that major surgery was what was really needed.

[Bill_McBride]

I think there are a lot of examples.  Two that come to mind are:

Los Angeles CC.  Work was performed maybe 5 or 6 years ago and the club then brought in Gil Hanse to restore the course completely.  

Cal Club.  Another situation where they did a lot of tree work and then 5 years later brought in Kyle Phillips to do a major renovation.

I think both of these clubs tried to put band aids on the courses and recognized that major surgery was what was really needed.

I had the feeling you weren't thrilled about renovations/remodeling at the O Club as well!

I guess you could call our new course at Pensacola a remodel since it's over some of the old corridors.  (Golf Inc did name it "Top Restoration od 2007").  Some of the drainage in front of greens didn't work as planned, so we had to install some French drains.   If I understand correctly, the architect designed this work and the contractor was paid cost only.   Since our super insists on overwatering, there are still several annoying soft approaches. B

[Mike_Young]

I've had a request from outside the site to ask the following questions:

How many of you have had experience of renovations & restorations at clubs you are familiar with?... How many of these clubs were happy with the results and crucuially, do you you know any examples of clubs that weren't happy with the results and what they did to rectify the problem?... e.g who paid the bill for any rework?... New architect appointed? etc...

Thanks

Some people would buy a FLW home and be HAPPY with new vinyl siding?   

[Joe Leenheer]

We renovated our bunkers and green surroundings 2-3 years ago.  The project was advertised to the membership as a necessary improvement of bunker drainage (as a heavy dew would leave puddles).  The improvement in aesthetics and modernization was always the second selling point. The project was a success as far as drainage is concerned.  We had the rainiest season ever in Northern Ohio and the bunkers handled it flawlessly.  

I think the course is better now then before...but could it have been better?...IMO..yeah.  Are the members happy with it...yes.  I think the BIG factor in their outlook on the project was that no assessment was needed (large capitol fund from a proactive finance committee) so the money did not come directly out of their pocket.  Otherwise, I don't think it would have ever been done.    

My only issue with the project was that it was a ticketed as a renovation...not a restoration.  We have a couple clubs in the area that are good...but they don't have our history or bones (club was est. in 1917).  I feel we hit a double when we could have knocked it out of the park.          

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ally, from my unreliable memory, in one of John Feinstein Books (either The Open or A Good Walk Spoiled) he has a really good chapter on how redoing (restoring/renovating?) the Greens at Riviera, in the late 90’s, went horribly wrong.  Reading it was an eye opener to me. Until then I had assumed if you appointed an Architect to lead them team you would listen to them, but....read on.


It’s a long time since I read it but I thought he did a good job laying out the varying opinions being given and the time pressures that compounded everything.

[Tony_Muldoon]

.

Ally, from my unreliable memory, in one of John Feinstein Books (either The Open or A Good Walk Spoiled) he has a really good chapter on how redoing (restoring/renovating?) the Greens at Riviera, in the late 90’s, went horribly wrong.  Reading it was an eye opener to me. Until then I had assumed if you appointed an Architect to lead them team you would listen to them, but....read on.


It’s a long time since I read it but I thought he did a good job laying out the varying opinions being given and the time pressures that compounded everything.

Wasn't that Brad Klein's book, rough meditations?

Doh, and I can't remember where I put that lottery ticket or even ever going to Connecticut!

Very good book.

Tony,

[Scott Stearns]

My club had the arch that built it come back in and do a long term plan--they re did all the bunkers and a few surrounds and it turned out great.

Initial work by the arch was poor--course was undercapitalized when built and corners were cut in construction.  And a lot of he shaping was poor.  But people are generally happy with the re-work (which was done at an additional fee) from the same team.

I personally really like it--but i do think there are a few things that in the playing should be tweaked--i would insist that this sort of thing be included in the bid price.

And the comm in charge of the reno should make sure any desired tweaks get made--i think sometimes (not in my club's case) there is a little pride of authorship in the final product and archs dont want to change stuff the members want.