St. George's and quirk, starring Hanse, Pat Mucci, and other GCAers

[Patrick_Mucci]

RMD,

I thought the 4th green complex was an excellent example of quirk.

The front mounding combined with the double fronting, stacked bunkers, combined with the moat bunker surrounding the castle/green.

The "Tube" fairway, the dual shared fairway, the shared bunkers flanking adjacent holes.

I think you could probably identify elements of quirk on just about every hole, with the exception of # 1.

It would be hard to imagine someone walking off the 18th green, thinking that the course he had just played was pretty much like every other course.

Unless of course, you're one of the dolts. morons, cretins and/or imbiciles named "Mark"

[Jay Flemma]

Jay,

Are you paid by The Golf Space and, if so, are you paid per page impression?

Just curious.

MY BUSINESS DEALINGS WITH ANY OF MY PUBLISHERS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.  NEITHER IS WHATEVER ARRANGEMENT I HAVE WITH RAN ABOUT POSTING HERE.  IS THAT IN ANY WAY UNCLEAR?

[Jay Flemma]

RMD,

I thought the 4th green complex was an excellent example of quirk.

The front mounding combined with the double fronting, stacked bunkers, combined with the moat bunker surrounding the castle/green.

The "Tube" fairway, the dual shared fairway, the shared bunkers flanking adjacent holes.

I think you could probably identify elements of quirk on just about every hole, with the exception of # 1.

It would be hard to imagine someone walking off the 18th green, thinking that the course he had just played was pretty much like every other course.

Unless of course, you're one of the dolts. morons, cretins and/or imbiciles named "Mark"

The tube fairway I assume you mean is 12?

Well 1 has quirk too...it has reverse camber and a severe false front.

[Garland Bayley]

... Few people are more wrong, more loudly, more often. 

The perfect description of Jay.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Quirk: --an abrubt twist or curve, a peculiar trait : indiosyncrasy: an accident, a vagary

The interpretation of quirk in regards to St. Georges is obciously very subjective.  The 4th green conplex with the moat bunkering and the fescue mounds guarding the entrance is very well done, but I don"t see it as quirky but in character with what Emmet designed.  False fronts and false sides, falloffs, ect were very common to his designs.  Mounds--common to his designs.  St. Georges is a great course that uses the terrain wonderfully, but when viewed in relation to Hampshire or NLE Briarcliff is quirk light at best.  Play the 3rd and 8th at Hampshire and you will find quirk

[Mark Saltzman]

Like others who posted on this thread, I don't see the similarity of the 17th at St George's with the 16th at Sandwich.

Perhaps Plainfield's 11th is a better comparision, with the false-front, tiny putting surface and deep fronting bunkers.

Or, perhaps the best thing to say is that the 17th at St George's is a fantastic short par-3.

Quirk is a word often used to describe St George's.  I suppose the number of blind shots may lead one to call the course quirky.  I'd call the course fun, though.  

Variety is such an important part of making a golf course interesting to play over and over, and that is where St George's shines.  

[Mac Plumart]

The closing stretch at St. George's is really something special.  I'd call the course a "must play" just to see that finish.

[Keith OHalloran]

Mac,
If you were a member of St George's and did not have much time, you could play 1,2,3 and then 11 to 18, or even walk right to the 13 tee and play in. Either way, great little loops in the evening.

[Dave Falkner]

Keith

that is what I often do   In fact St Georges has many such loops

1-3 then 18(if really pressed for time); 1-7 then 18;  1-10 the 18; 13-18; 15-18; and of course you can finish at 12 or 14 then hop up the hill to the house

I think all of the potential loops are attest to a spectacular routing

[jeffwarne]

Keith

that is what I often do   In fact St Georges has many such loops

1-3 then 18(if really pressed for time); 1-7 then 18;  1-10 the 18; 13-18; 15-18; and of course you can finish at 12 or 14 then hop up the hill to the house

I think all of the potential loops are attest to a spectacular routing

St. George's is now in my top 5  favorite courses to play on Long Island
although that's a list that can change at any time
By "closing stretch" Mac do you mean 10-18? because I thought they were all pretty special

[Keith OHalloran]

Jeff,
I am pretty sure Mac was referring to 12 to 18, but having spoken to him, that is not a slight on any hole out there.

And as for your changing list of five favorites, maybe you can make it your tag line? This way we can keep up in real time? 

[jeffwarne]

Keith,
Is Shelter Island consodered Long Island?
If so may have to make it a top 6

The green on #10 at St. George's is awesome (I still want to go back and bang one off the wall)
11's no slouch

[Keith OHalloran]

Jeff,
If you are willing to consider a course west of the canal,I am willing to let you consider Shelter Island as well!

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,
If you are willing to consider a course west of the canal,I am willing to let you consider Shelter Island as well!

Keith,
Many of my current favorites  are west of the canal

[Mac Plumart]

Jeff...

Yep, the entire course and the back nine is very good.  But I think these holes are something extra special.  

Here is 13...






Here is 15...




17...




and 18.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Quirk: --an abrubt twist or curve, a peculiar trait : indiosyncrasy: an accident, a vagary

The interpretation of quirk in regards to St. Georges is obciously very subjective.  The 4th green conplex with the moat bunkering and the fescue mounds guarding the entrance is very well done, but I don"t see it as quirky but in character with what Emmet designed. 

RMD, you can't view the architecture at St George's, solely in the context of Emmet's work, which tends to be generally quirky.

You have to view it in the broader context of general architecture, and the work at St George's is definitely "quirky"

False fronts and false sides, falloffs, ect were very common to his designs.  Mounds--common to his designs.  St. Georges is a great course that uses the terrain wonderfully, but when viewed in relation to Hampshire or NLE Briarcliff is quirk light at best. 

If Hampshire is quirkier than St George's that doesn't mean that St George's isn't quirky.
The entire course is quirky.

Play the 3rd and 8th at Hampshire and you will find quirk

My dad and I won the MGA Father-Son at Hampshire, but, that was in another century.

[Mark Saltzman]

I think the great stretch runs from 13-18; really good stuff.

I wonder if the rolling terrain on the right side of 12 could be mowed at fairway height?

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks, Mark.  I fixed it.

[David Harshbarger]

I wonder why there's a bunker far left on the approach on 13?  No one would be aiming near there would they?  And if you hit it there, do you really deserve a 40 yard downhill sand recovery?

[Keith OHalloran]

Mark,
While I understand what you feel about the hill on the right of 12, I am suprised that you don't consider it a great hole. It has always reminded me of the 14th at Shinnecock, which I also love. Even with the rough, your ball will usually bound down off the hill into the fairway. The second shot is demanding, and I think the green is very good.  Do you have some photos?

[Keith OHalloran]

David,
I don't think it is that far off the green, but it is on the way to the next tee. Perhaps it is there to make sure people do not go in that direction?

[David Harshbarger]

If all it took was a bunker to keep my ball going in that direction...

[Mark McKeever]

I wonder why there's a bunker far left on the approach on 13?  No one would be aiming near there would they?  And if you hit it there, do you really deserve a 40 yard downhill sand recovery?

Dave,

I actually double crossed it and ended up in that bunker on the left.  Its a stout par 4 and I remember having a pretty long way in.  I do remember having do deal with tree branches on the bunker shot which I think bothered me more than the location of the bunker.

Mark

[Jay Flemma]

Jeff,
I am pretty sure Mac was referring to 12 to 18, but having spoken to him, that is not a slight on any hole out there.

And as for your changing list of five favorites, maybe you can make it your tag line? This way we can keep up in real time? 

I agree! 12-18 is all fantastic!  It's a long closing stretch...as yogi B would say, "it gets late early out there:)"

[Mike Hendren]

Like others who posted on this thread, I don't see the similarity of the 17th at St George's with the 16th at Sandwich.

Perhaps Plainfield's 11th is a better comparision, with the false-front, tiny putting surface and deep fronting bunkers.

Mark, I immediately thought of Plainfield's 11th as well, but  is it possible that Shinnecock's 11th is the better comparison?

Mike