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Pete Blaisdell

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10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« on: November 21, 2011, 05:07:43 AM »
Gentlemen
  Being totally ignorant of the ins and outs of golf in Australia but considering a 30 day visit within the next two years, I would like to hear your opinions on what would feel would be the ten best courses to play in Australia for enjoyment , architectural value and competitive challenge??
' Golf courses are like wives and the prom queen doesn't always make for the best wife "

Matthew Mollica

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2011, 05:14:16 AM »
There's going to be some variety among respondants, depending upon how they weight fun, challenge, and design merit.

My take -

Royal Melbourne West & East
Kingston Heath
Commonwealth
Victoria
Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm
The National (Old)
St. Andrews Beach
New South Wales

Kyle Henderson will be a good source of information after his trip.

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Scott Warren

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2011, 05:22:32 AM »
Matt: Nat Old over Moonah?

I would nominate:

Royal Melbourne (West)
Kingston Heath
Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm
New South Wales
The Lakes
Newcastle
St Andrews Beach
Peninsula (North)
Bonnie Doon - post March 31, 2012

I say that having not played at The National, Victoria, Commonwealth, Lake Karrinyup or Royal Queensland.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 06:50:10 AM by Scott Warren »

Pete Blaisdell

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 05:27:19 AM »
Matt & Scott
  Appreciate your picks-It's been mentioned that a course called Metropolitan was worth a look. Any thoughts there??
' Golf courses are like wives and the prom queen doesn't always make for the best wife "

Bill_McBride

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 05:40:56 AM »
Matt & Scott
  Appreciate your picks-It's been mentioned that a course called Metropolitan was worth a look. Any thoughts there??

Haven't been Down Under either, Pete, but I saw an event televised at Metropolitan and loved the way the bunkers eat right into the greens.   That soil is really something to support that style!

Thirty days sounds about right, lots to see!

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2011, 05:50:12 AM »
Pete, what are you going to do for the other 20 days?
@theflatsticker

Mark_F

Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2011, 06:24:50 AM »
Appreciate your picks-It's been mentioned that a course called Metropolitan was worth a look. Any thoughts there??

Forget about it, unless you have time for more than fifteen rounds.

Royal West - East is great, but not worth the extra dosh over seeing others.
Kingston Heath
Commonwealth
Woodlands
St Andrews Beach
Peninsula North
Barwon Heads
BB Dunes
BB Lost Farm
Bonnie Doon, if the youtube videos are anything to go by.



Mark Chaplin

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2011, 06:39:54 AM »
Royal Melbourne West
Kingston Heath
Metropolitan - I like it!
NSW
Royal Sydney - great experience if you have reciprocal arrangements and can stay at the club.
Royal Adelaide - must play if in SA but not worth a special journey.
Kennedy Bay - if you are out west it's very much worth a visit.

That's only 7 as I haven't played any of the new courses. In fact Kennedy Bay is probably the newest course I've ever played and I've not been to Royal Queensland post Clayton.

Australia is one of the world's greatest (& most expensive) holiday destinations. If you go there limit the golf and do things you cannot do everyday at home.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 06:43:02 AM by Mark Chaplin »
Cave Nil Vino

David_Elvins

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2011, 06:44:23 AM »
Peter,

Here is a quick lowdown on Australian Golf. 

Look for books by Paul Daley and Mike Clayton, which have a heavy slant towards Australian golf courses.  Paul Daley's "the sandbelt" and Golf Architecture Vol 1 to 6 are excellent. 

There are plenty of photo tours of Australian golf courses on here, thegolfforum.com and iseekgolf.com and scott warren's blogs, as well as Darius Oliver's website.  Do a search of the forums if you want to get an idea of courses.

There are 4 truly world class courses in Australia that you should play as many times as you can - Barnbougle Dunes, Royal Melbourne West, Lost Farm and Kingston Heath. 

As well as Royal Melbourne (east and West) and Kingston Heath, there are half a dozen, or so, courses worth playing on the sandbelt in Mlebourne.  None are perfect but all offer some interesting architecture - Victoria, Commonwealth, Woodlands, Peninsula (north and South) Metropolitan. 

1.5 hours out of melbourne is the mornington peninsula which has some very good courses (at least as good as the second tier sandbelt courses).  The National Old, National Moonah and St Andrews Beach are the pick of the bunch.  The Dunes, Moonah Links Legends, and Portsea are also worth playing. 

Barwon Heads, 13th Beach and Healesville are also courses worhth playing around melbourne. 


Sydney sis a spectacular tourist city but the golf is not great. NSW is a must play although the course is not as good as it should be, the site is spectacular.  The Lakes is also very good.  Newcastle is 1.5 hours drive nrth and as close to a hidden gem as you will get in Australia.

royal adelaide is (obviously) in Adelaide.  IT is worth checking outas it is a wonderfully intimate site  but changes made in the last ten years have not been kind.  It is not world class. Links Lady Bay, The Grange (east and West) are the next best in town and worth playing if you have the time (top 20-30 in the country) and kooyonga and gleneg are close behind on the next rung. 

Perth is a long way from anywhere else in Australia but it is home to lake karrinyup which is, in my opinion, Australia's 5th best course.  A very Australian style course too so worth the drive.  The rest of perth is a dissapoitnemnt considering the excellent land but Links at Kennedy Bay and Joondalup are interesting. 

Queensland has a lot of resort courses, but I cannot offer muc hopinion on them. 

That, in a nutshell is Australian golf.  My advice would be to read Paul Daley's, Darius Oliver's and Mike Clayton's books, and look through some of the photo threads on here and the other websites I mentioned. 
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Mark_F

Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2011, 06:49:37 AM »
Interesting that Royal Adelaide, a perennial world top 100 course, doesn't get a mention here or generally on the site. Is it living off past glories / its Royal title? Or have folk not played it recently?

Brian,

It's a pretty goof course, but kind of difficult to justify if you only have time for ten rounds.  If you have the time and money it is worth going to Adelaide, for you can also see Grange West, possibly the most underrated course in the country, besides Capital.  

Australia is one of the world's greatest (& most expensive) holiday destinations.  

Mark,

Aside from the accommodation and food, is it really that expensive??

Kevin Pallier

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2011, 06:57:21 AM »
Pete

I will recommend 10 courses worth seeing in just 3 States. Whilst I have Royal Adelaide in my Top10 Australian courses I wouldn't recommend a special trip just to see it.

There's variety in the attached incl. 4 courses from the Sandbelt which I presume an overseas visitor is after ?

VIC
Royal Melbourne West & East
Kingston Heath
Woodlands
St Andrews Beach
National (Moonah)

TAS
Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm

NSW
New South Wales
The Lakes

Josh Stevens

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2011, 07:00:15 AM »
depends a little on what you actually want to acheive.  Do you want to play those that makes the "best of" lists or do you want to see some variety, both across the country and to see how things are done differently to elsewhere in the world.

The primary difference with Oz, is that most of the great golf is metropolitan golf.  With the recent exceptions of the mornington peninsula and Barnbougle, most of the good old tracks are smack in the  middle of the big cities.

Melbourne is done to death, the list there is pretty standard

Sydney is it true isnt the greatest golfing desination despite the fact there is (or was) some decent land in the mini sandbelt of the eastern suburbs, and of course the NSW site is quite something.  Worth playing some of these tracks (Royal Syd and The Australian) and wondering why they got it so wrong, when Melbourne got it so right.

Royal Adelaide would almost always be a must play but it is a very confused place at the moment.  Along with NSW and RM, prob the best site for a metropolitan course, but not sure if it wants to be Arthur or Martha. If anyone has an update on the internal battle about whether to continue with Mac I would love to hear it.  Would be a little sad if they got cold feet.

Perth yes is a long long way from anywhere.  Karrinyup is a pretty good effort on a difficult site (nice and sandy but rather hilly).  I always like to go south and play Albany - the oldest course in Western Australia and only one of two real orignal links in the country (the other being Barwon Heads).  It isnt great as its just a little country track, but I think some of the best fairway undulations around - if only they had the money to do it up.

Brisbane??  well, perhaps not.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2011, 07:05:13 AM »
Mark isn't 90% of a tourists expenditure food, drinks and lodgings?

London Zoo A$30 and Sydney Zoo A$44

London Aquarium A$30 and Sydney A$35

The Old Course A$200 and RM or Royal Sydney A$360

Machrihanish A$140 all day and Barnbougle Dunes A$130

The strength of the dollar is strangling your tourist trade.
Cave Nil Vino

Pete Blaisdell

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2011, 07:32:14 AM »
Let me first thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions.

I was asked what I was going to do the other 20 days. I thought I would take pencil and paper and write down everyone's recommendations, do some research based on the books and websites you all have mentioned and come up with a " composite" (there's that word again) of 25 courses to play then work out the travel and lodging logistics. When I work that out, I'll be looking for members to contact and some advice on restaurants. Other than that, this is a golf trip. I guess I could drink beer and ogle the bikinis on the beach but I can do that here. I want to go and play golf and then some more golf and meet people and make some friends.
' Golf courses are like wives and the prom queen doesn't always make for the best wife "

Ian Andrew

Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 08:46:21 AM »
Royal Melbourne West
Kingston Heath
Barnbougle Dunes
Lost Farms
New South Wales

Woodlands
Royal Melbourne East
Commonwealth
Royal Adelaide
Metropolitan

Scott Warren

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 09:02:24 AM »
Chappers,

Sydney's zoo and aquarium shit all over London's. At those comparison prices, they're a bargain.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 09:10:27 AM »
Scott as you know I'm the biggest fan of Australian holidays having spent well over 6 months there in six trips. It doesnt matter how you look at it the A$ is massively strong and your economy is rocking thus making Australia expensive to visit. We hosted enough RM members this summer to know they were having a very good time over here, unlike 5-10 years ago!!

The only salvation is decent Aussie wines in Waitrose are well under in pounds the dollar price you'd pay at home  :P
Cave Nil Vino

Tyler Kearns

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 10:24:15 AM »
Interesting that Royal Adelaide, a perennial world top 100 course, doesn't get a mention here or generally on the site. Is it living off past glories / its Royal title? Or have folk not played it recently?

I played it in 2009 and, whilst I enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away...

Brian,

I came away feeling the same way after playing Royal Adelaide. There are some excellent holes, but I found the greens to be rather plain.  It was the last course I played in Australia, after the Sandbelt & Tasmania, so perhaps it was a victim of its place in the batting order?

TK

Patrick Kiser

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2011, 10:33:28 AM »
I'm glad David mentioned Portsea.  It looks fantastic from Kyle's thread.
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Ian Andrew

Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 10:40:01 AM »
Interesting that Royal Adelaide, a perennial world top 100 course, doesn't get a mention here or generally on the site. Is it living off past glories / its Royal title? Or have folk not played it recently?

I played it in 2009 and, whilst I enjoyed it, I wasn't blown away...

I had a truly magical day there (Nov. 2010) and would recommend it to others.

There are four or five outstanding green sites worth seeing.
From an architectural perspective, it was worth the trip, even only to see the 3rd green!

You also need to see Clayton's 17th for the massive contrast and consider the changes that may come?

I feel there are far too many average holes for this to be a top 100 course.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 10:42:11 AM by Ian Andrew »

Bill Brightly

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 10:51:12 AM »
Pete said ten courses, not ten rounds...and I would hope that he can play each course twice. Having just made the trip, that is what I would recommend. I felt like I got to know Lost Farms and Barny Dunes a bit because I played each course three times. Royal Melbourne went by in a flash (of brilliance) and I really wish I had played it more than once.

Brad Isaacs

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 11:00:23 AM »
No one has mentioned Yara Yara?

Tyler Kearns

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2011, 01:07:53 PM »
No one has mentioned Yara Yara?

Brad,

Good call. Yarra Yarra has a fantastic collection of par threes that are worth a look when touring the sandbelt.
Under the radar courses that should be seen on a comprehensive tour include Woodlands, Peninsula & Portsea.
I didn't see Royal Automobile Club of Victoria (RACV) when I was in Australia, as it was pre-Clayton renovation. I would definitely take a look on a 2nd trip Down Under to see what looks to be an exciting and fun short course (sub 6,000 yard). This type of course may play a big role in the future of the game.

TK
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 01:10:22 PM by Tyler Kearns »

Josh Stevens

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 02:45:05 PM »
RA may have some of the best green sites, but they are invariably wasted.  Cant think of many decent undulations or much of any character other than the upturned saucer 10th which i quite like

Michael Goldstein

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Re: 10 Best Courses to play in Australia
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2011, 07:19:49 PM »
Pete,

For a green fee at RM you can fly return to New Zealand. Three hours flight each way at very convenient times.  If you're down under I'd seriously recommend spending a week in NZ. 

The rest of the time around Melbourne - 20 odd days should be plenty for a festival of golf.

Michael



@Pure_Golf

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