If Royal Melbourne was in the United States

[Kevin Pallier]

Scott

16W is the only standout hole for mine that is missed in a Composite routing. Particularly given it's one of the better long P3's going round. I also like 4E and as we know it's not being used this year.

With the exception of the above -  I prefer each of the East holes over the West holes you mention.

[David_Elvins]

Scott,

I am with Kev.  The composite is a far better course, especially for a tournament.  8W, 9W, and 14W are good golf holes but their yardage 340, 350 and 380m are a bit of a nothing yardage, especially for pros.  THe drivable 300m 1E and 400m+ 2E and 18E are far superior holes for a championship or even a good amateur.  17E gives the composite course a true par 5 where as the 435m 15W is a par 4 in reality, leaving the west course with one par 5 in tournaments - the shortish 4W (2W and 12W are being played as par 4s). 

THere are also other factors that balance out the course well - uphill approach on 2E, iron off the tee on 3E, more unique green on 15E. 

Of course the compiste course's best routing starts with 1w and finsihes with 18E, both perfect  opening and finishing holes.

[Mark Chaplin]

If Royal Melbourne was in the USA it wouldn't be Royal 

I think it would be rated higher if it were in the US as it would have far more exposure. Having spent a few days at both RM and PV this year, as a golf course RM isn't a million miles behind PV.

[David_Elvins]

If Royal Melbourne was in the USA it wouldn't be Royal 

not exactly true...

http://www.royalmelbourne.net/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=324992&ssid=219153&vnf=1

[Mark Chaplin]

David - the course you refer to is no more Royal than I am. I'm sure within the US the term can be used anywhere and by anyone but certainly not within the Commonwealth.

[Mike Hendren]

Like Augusta National Golf Club it does not feature frilly bunkers.  I thought you guys loathed the hard, crisp edges?

[George Pazin]

I think RMW is better than Oakmont & Royal County Down.  I could put it ahead of those two, and I really like them both.

You just cost yourself a Christmas card, buddy! HERESY!!

On a more serious note, the most glaring mistake in Sean's premise is that RM would survive as is in the USA; it'd be stretched out and flattened and softened to an almost unrecognizable degree...

Bill's list highlights the silliness of trying to compile a top 10 list. My top 5 Victoria's Secret angels are, in order, ....

[Mark Chaplin]

George pretty much every tee is at it's full length, unless the club purchased surrounding houses, knocked them down and built new tees it is difficult to add another yard to the West course.

[Brian Hilko]

I worked at the Royal Melbourne in IL. I can confirm the club received a few letters asking them to drop the royal name. They did not. I can't believe Norman would allow some housing development course with no resemblance to the original to be named Royal Melbourne.

[George Pazin]

George pretty much every tee is at it's full length, unless the club purchased surrounding houses, knocked them down and built new tees it is difficult to add another yard to the West course.

That just means certain architects would be retained to laser the green, buy the property next door and stretch and rebuild. Repeat ad nauseum... My apologies if the decisions at a handful of clubs is making me cynical.

[Lou_Duran]

RM is #1 on my bucket list and I've yet to play many of the eastern US courses (PV, Merion, Oakmont).  Learning the game on a Dr. MacK. routed course, I am a huge fan.  However, watching two days of the PC reinforces my belief that without the extreme course conditioning, preparation, and set-up, combined with the huge winds, RM-Composite, like many other Classics, does not test all facets of the game and is not of championship caliber.  It would likely eat my lunch with 10' greens and 10 mph winds, but that's not saying much.  A great club course it seems, and to that extent it might not fare as well if it was located in Dallas.

[Bill Brightly]

Maybe George, but what I bet DEFINITELY  would have happened is that the fairways would have been narrowed and thick rough added... And THAT would be tragic.

I played RM West once, and what sticks in my mind is that this course instantly educated me about the importance of width, combined with large, sprawling greens ,to create tremendous interest and strategy. I loved playing West, but watching the President's Cup composite course is driving me crazy because the hole numbers are AFU and I never got to play East.

[Will MacEwen]

David - the course you refer to is no more Royal than I am. I'm sure within the US the term can be used anywhere and by anyone but certainly not within the Commonwealth.

Speaking for Canada, there is no shortage of Royal abuse in the naming of golf clubs.  I just did a search, and the first one that came up was "Royal York Golf Club and RV Park.".

[Shane Gurnett]

However, watching two days of the PC reinforces my belief that without the extreme course conditioning, preparation, and set-up, combined with the huge winds, RM-Composite, like many other Classics, does not test all facets of the game and is not of championship caliber.

Lou, which facets of the game does Royal Melbourne not test? Why is it not of championship calibre?

[David Kelly]

 However, watching two days of the PC reinforces my belief that without the extreme course conditioning, preparation, and set-up, combined with the huge winds, RM-Composite, like many other Classics, does not test all facets of the game and is not of championship caliber.  It would likely eat my lunch with 10' greens and 10 mph winds, but that's not saying much.  A great club course it seems, and to that extent it might not fare as well if it was located in Dallas.

Wow, if you can pick up that much from just watching on TV then a trip to Melbourne to actually see and play the course would be superfluous.

If Royal Melbourne was located in Dallas it would be the best course in Texas by an order of magnitude.

[Steve Lapper]

If Royal Melbourne was located in the United States and 'everything' was the same as we see it on TV in Australia. (everything being, grass types, wind, maintenance practices) would we consider it the #1 golf course in the world?
How much is location a factor in ratings.  
Love watching this place on TV.  It's fantastic.  Also worth playing on Tiger Woods 2011 but still does it no justice.

I've played almost every other one that's been mentioned here as possibly occupying most any top ten list and I'd unequivocally put RM Composite at #1 and RMW within the top five!!!*

It is my favorite place to have played, to watch and to remember about every shot value that it reveals!


*Of course, those that know my preference for RM have heard this ad nauseum over the past 5-6 years. I'm just glad it's getting it's TV coverage with ideal viewing conditions

[Mark Chaplin]

If RM was in the USA it would prove that a wonderful two course private members club can have 2000 members, reciprocal arrangements, allow limited visitor golf and still be a very strong club working tirelessly for its members. Dare I say if RM were in Chicago there would be 500 members, huge member fees and zero outside play.

Strangely this system works at Sunningdale, Muirfield, RCD, Royal Melbourne, Royal Durban, Valderrama & Paraparaumu Beach...........

[Warwick Loton]

If RM were in the US, what would it's slope rating be?

Obviously it is currently in tournament condition: it normally plays with the greens stimping around 10 to 10.5 or 11, maybe a bit more for members' medal rounds and the like.

[Mark Chaplin]

Warwick the way you play about 120!! For the rest of us I'd say the Standard Scratch would be around 76 . Not sure of the slopes but I'd say RM is 3 or 4 strokes harder than say Chicago or National, a shot or two harder than Olympia Fields, Inverness or Oakland Hills and a couple of shots easier than Pine Valley although I've never played PV with the greens firm. Unlike the others PV and RM present the opportunity to rack up a big score on nearly every hole without doing too much wrong!

I have never played more difficult conditions - other than really strong links winds - than the first round in March when the greens were crispy and frighteningly quick. Fortunately the two rounds we had were a tad softer.

[Ben Jarvis]

If RM were in the US, what would it's slope rating be?

Obviously it is currently in tournament condition: it normally plays with the greens stimping around 10 to 10.5 or 11, maybe a bit more for members' medal rounds and the like.

All golf courses are currently being given a slope rating, in preparation to introduce the USGA handicapping system in Australia. I believe the rating panel recently allocated a slope for RM West and East in the vicinity of low to mid-130's. If you ask me, it a very difficult course for the average handicapped golfer, particularly female golfers, due to a lower ball flight that is required to carry VERY rough ground between tee and fairway, and the inability to recover from those deep green side bunkers.

[Wade Schueneman]

This may have been discussed before, but could a visitor ever play the composite  Do they ever use it for charity events or other events open to the public?

[Lou_Duran]

However, watching two days of the PC reinforces my belief that without the extreme course conditioning, preparation, and set-up, combined with the huge winds, RM-Composite, like many other Classics, does not test all facets of the game and is not of championship caliber.

Lou, which facets of the game does Royal Melbourne not test? Why is it not of championship calibre?

From what I saw on television when I wrote the above, the composite course has ample width while being relatively short (under 7000 yards?).  The course doesn't appear to challenge the tee shot and but for the bone-dry 14'+ greens and buffeting winds, the resulting approaches wouldn't be that difficult (yesterday's play tended to support that).  It was said that Ernie shot 60 in a tournament there under more normal conditions.

By chanpionship caliber I mean able to hold the highest level competitions without having to resort to extreme measures bordering on making the course unplayable.  Oakmont, Winged Foot-West, Bethpage-Black, Carnoustie are some examples of Classic courses I think are of championship caliber.

[Lou_Duran]

 However, watching two days of the PC reinforces my belief that without the extreme course conditioning, preparation, and set-up, combined with the huge winds, RM-Composite, like many other Classics, does not test all facets of the game and is not of championship caliber.  It would likely eat my lunch with 10' greens and 10 mph winds, but that's not saying much.  A great club course it seems, and to that extent it might not fare as well if it was located in Dallas.

Wow, if you can pick up that much from just watching on TV then a trip to Melbourne to actually see and play the course would be superfluous.

If Royal Melbourne was located in Dallas it would be the best course in Texas by an order of magnitude.

Who am I to argue with a globe trotter such as you.  And thanks for your travel advice.  I'll be sure to scratch RM from my intinerary.

Regarding your assertion that RM if being "located in Dallas it would be the best course in Texas by an order of magnitude", I'll inform the local paper to dump their rating panel and defer to your judgement.  Since you seem to dismiss my ability to pick things up on TV, may I ask what courses have you played in Texas?  (Sorry, I am being rhetorical; I really have no interest).  But even assuming that you're spot-on, according to most on this site, Texas is devoid of quality golf, making your endorsement of RM little more than benign praise.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mark I get your point but agree to a point. the monthly fees would likely be in line with other clubs in that part of the US. However I think North Carolina is the better place for it to be given the chances for a great sandy base. Also almost all US course have outside play. All have visitor play. It just needs to be with a reciprocating club, a member or sponsored by a member or some club approved outside group. Most clubs in the US have become hostage to the revenue of outside play, just not to the degree the UK clubs have. At the end of the day, I do not feel RM gets any less love being in Australia. Is it better than Augusta National or Cypress Point? Those are the two peers by Mac in the US. I think it is in the discussion with them. I need to play there to have a real feel. All 3 are special places.

[Tim Bert]

If RM was in the USA it would prove that a wonderful two course private members club can have 2000 members, reciprocal arrangements, allow limited visitor golf and still be a very strong club working tirelessly for its members.

Dare I say that if a top 10 in the world club employed this model anywhere in the general vicinity of a major city in the US the tee sheet would be so stacked that the members would probably be enjoying waits and 5 hour rounds on a regular basis unless you had significant limits on how much members could play.