Presidents Cup at RM

[Warwick Loton]

Today was the second day of official practice rounds for the Presidents’ Cup. I was there, and watched Phil Mickelson, Jim Furyk, Bubba Watson & Web Simpson.

What to report:

THE GREENS
The greens were reasonably hard yesterday, and quite fast: they were hard enough to make a hollow-sounding thudding sound when a ball landed, but definitely not as hard as they sometimes get.
Last night it rained: 9mm fell (more than 1/3 of an inch).
Today the greens were a bit slower, and noticeably less hard: players had no trouble getting chips shots to check abruptly, and short approach shots to bite and aggressively spin back toward in the direction from which they’d been hit.

How fast? This afternoon I spoke to two assistant greenkeepers, each from a different Sandbelt club. One estimated the greens were stimping at 12 today; the other estimated them at 12.5-13.0 today. These estimates are higher than most of the media commentators are suggesting (ie 11 or 11.5). I can add that the balls were reacting on some greens today in ways they hardly ever do when members play, and the greens have, over recent years, regularly stimped up to 11 for members. (I'll refrain from telling you how fast I think they were, because I also spoke to a person who knows exactly what speed they are, but his comments were made in confidence. Nothing in the preceding comments reflects what that person told me, nor hints at it. The preceding comments were exactly what I’d have reported had I not spoken to this other figure.)
The greens looked to be rolling faster yesterday – you’d certainly expect them to be a bit slower after a night of persistent rain.
The grass hasn’t been cut unusually short, and so far the greens haven’t looked frightening. That said, there are spots where you really wouldn’t want a downhill putt. The players seem comfortable enough with the greens (eg no shaking of heads or whining in public…)
Today, on the 6th & 7th of the West (holes 4 & 5 on this week’s layout) when a ball was rolled up the green it would roll back down toward the bottom of the green – it wouldn’t readily hold on some of the up-slopes. The groups I saw on 6W were throwing balls around on the green, trying to figure out how to play it.

The overnight rain obviously hindered efforts to present hard greens. We’ve had a number of days of rain over the last two weeks (including 24mm / almost an inch, during a single day) so the greens staff has obviously had a challenging time getting the greens hard.
If the weather cooperates, it’s realistic to hope that the greens will firm up enough for the players to face with a real challenge (in which case we'd see which of the players understands RM). That might happen on Friday, with a forecast of 33 degrees (90 something for those of you in the States) and northerly winds averaging 40 km/h (25mile/hr).


More to come...

[Warwick Loton]

cont...

THE PLAYERS I WATCHED & HOW THEY PLAYED THE COURSE
(Sorry if you don’t know the holes: there’s assumed knowledge here.)

Web Simpson and his caddy seemed the most switched on of the group I followed.
On the 1st of the East (11th of this week’s layout) all the players belted their driver, and all appeared to simply aim toward the green. Two left themselves a little chip, and two left themselves in the front right bunker, having to carry their bunker shots 25yds to reach the green – about the worse second shot you could envisage on that hole.
Once on the green, Web Simpson’s caddy started pointing to a line in from the left: he’d figured out that for a pin placement on the left, you could prudently approach from the left of the fairway. After a few minutes Phil “got it” and pronounced this insight for all to hear. They’d figured out ½ the basic strategy of where to drive on that hole.

Simpson and Watson retired for the day after playing 8 holes.

After they’d gone, Mickelson & Furyk practiced playing foursomes together. On the 3rd of the West (1st of this week’s layout) Phil drove long and right. It’s rare to see anyone play the hole this way, but, as I’ve posted before, it’s my theory that this is how the course designers intended it to be played. I suspect that their intent was that (with a hard green) the way to skilfully play the hole was to drive long and right, and then to bounced the ball through the raised diagonal hump along the front of the green. Jim hit a regulation USPGA style approach shot (ie a high wedge shot). The ball landed exactly where he'd intended, but then rolled well past the hole. The pair scratched their heads, and then Jim had a second try. He hit this one much lower, and landed it exactly where he'd aimed: he skillfully bounced the ball off the face of that hump… the ball gently ran to within 4 feet of the hole. A pleasure to watch!

Phil blazed away with driver on most holes. Some results were brilliant; some were sprayed into the trees.
Bubba hit an iron on most of his 8 holes: he hit driver just twice. On the second of the West (17th of this week’s layout) he hit iron off the tee, and another iron as an approach shot… on what is a par 5.

Oh, and finally, rumour has it that Bubba tried to drive the 18th of the West (10th of this week’s layout) yesterday – hit a draw, and finished in a greenside bunker. That’s a big hit.

[James Bennett]

Some Presidents' Cup 2011 Pictures from the Tuesday practice.

You can see the Legend couch fairways, the fescue surrounds and the latest hybrid 'suttons mix' bent on the greens.

The course was very firm and fast on Tuesday, but slightly more receptive on Wednesday after a downpour Tuesday night.  Some water was lying in the low points well out of play.  Rain is forecast for saturday but tomorrow (day 1 - foursomes) will be 28 (82 F) so things should be quickish tomorrow.  Friday will be 33, and humid.

#3 - west 5.


#4 - west 6




#11 - east 1.  US team consulting their books.




approach to the green.  #12 tee (east 2) in the background.  Short 4 - driven by some US players despite being into the breeze.




Internationals on #11 green (east 2)


#12 tee (east 2)


play is generally from the lhs of the tee - for obvious reasons.  hybrids and long irons, played over the trees at the flagpoles up be the grandstand by the green.


#14 (east 16).  This is a new hole - 170 yards which replaces the adjacent east 4 long par 3 previously used.  Two separate teeing areas, five separate pinnable areas, and a flattish green.




Play from the adjacent tee on $15 (east 17)


and the approach to the green after the cross bunkers.  The three grass types are again apparent.


#18 - west 2.
The green, and adjacent bunkering.


The approach for your long second.


by the way, for the benefit of the (few) British readers, the blue part at the top of the photos is the sky.  And these photos are untouched.

cheers

James B

[Warwick Loton]

Brian,

I'm a traditionalist, and would like to see all the Sandbelt courses set up exactly as Crockford and Morcom (longtime RM curators & Sandbelt guiding lights) would have had it. This includes using the turf varieties they used (after much thought & much trial and error). Alas, that's never going to happen.

Switching from native couch to Legend couch has made a difference. Legend grips the ball more, and offers less run. This makes the course play longer than it used to in summer, though this impacts much more on shorter hitters while making little or no difference for pros & other long hitters. Few people mention how the extra grip impacts on sloped fairways, which are an important strategic design feature of various holes. Where a drive lands on a slope, there used to be much more of a fear of the ball bouncing off the slope and into tea tree. It's now much harder to inflict this fate upon oneself. As RM has more undulating land than any other Sandbelt course, this is more of an issue at RM than among its neighbour courses. Legend feels soft to walk upon and looks pretty. Many people think it's a fantastic choice simply because it looks so green and pretty. No doubt it's a good turf, with some advantages over native couch, but native couch also has a lot going for it. With the Legend now well established on the West and Composite course holes, and sections of the East yet to be switched over, the opportunity exists to directly compare the two couch varieties on different holes of the same course. It is instructive to ask visitors who have played the East, without awareness of the turf issues, what they though of the fairways in the far paddocks compared to those in the main paddock: most report a preference for the native turf.

The fescue surrounds (around the greens) have taken time to grow in. There tends to be far less general enthusiasm for this change (ie switching from couch surrounds to fescue). The nature of fescue is that it requires frequent watering during warm weather. Obviously this means that these areas won't be as firm as they've traditionally been. This difference has subtly but very importantly changed the way that the slopes around the greens play. There used to be many slopes at the sides of greens which would feed a ball into the core of that green. In some cases, these used to be regular target landing areas. In other cases these used to be a safe miss: you could aim well away from trouble, knowing that if you went a bit to far the course would guide your ball back pleasingly. These softened slopes now absorb the impact of a landing ball, and no longer feed it into the green. These slopes were carefully created; they were put there for a purpose; this was how the course was intended to be played... As a surface to chip off, few have taken to the fescue. It may well improve as it grows in, needing less water and being able to be cut lower and be rolled. And, to answer your direct question, yes, the ball pulls up much more than in used to in the run up.

The days of the fairways looking near-dead and being hard are most likely not to be seen again. All the Sandbelt clubs now have substantial water infrastructure, and all want their courses to look like well manicured nature-strips all year round (or as close to it as possible).

James,
Your closing comments (about the sky) are a classic.

[Bill_McBride]

James, the sun sometimes shines in the UK in May, your November.  Sometimes.  The weather was lovely last September, your March. 

Do I sense a certain animus?   

[Mike_Clayton]

Warwick,

'The greens were reasonably hard'!!
I haven't seen a shot yet despite being there for a couple of days (kind of like going to the Melbourne Cup) but i have walked it and the greens look a little more than reasonably hard to me.
I think the fescue will play beautifully - it is so much better to chip off than the couch and it looked well firm enough to me.It will be terrific to observe today and Friday looks like some smelly weather coming.

[David_Tepper]

NY Times article (by Alan Shipnuck) on RM:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/sports/golf/presidents-cup-international-team-has-familiarity-and-history-on-its-side.html?ref=golf

[Ben Jarvis]

A couple of observations from yesterday-
Into the breeze, the balls are checking. On 10 West, Tiger had a 60m pitch that spun back 6ft. Down breeze is another story though. On 1 West, Dustin Johnson landed his approach shot in the front section of the green, only for it to take a big bounce and roll out over the back.

[JMEvensky]

NY Times article (by Alan Shipnuck) on RM:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/sports/golf/presidents-cup-international-team-has-familiarity-and-history-on-its-side.html?ref=golf

I think the author is Adam Schupak,not the SI reporter.I thought the same thing when I first looked at it.

[Mark Chaplin]

James - the wettest I've been all year was playing the back nine holes of RME in March, didn't see the blue stuff then! 

[James Bennett]

okay, second and final instalment (no cameras allowed Thursday to Sunday).  These are a little rambling, and they show the variety of weather that can occur within an hour in Melbourne - heavy rain overnight, then overast, then cloudy, then full sun, and back to cloudy, and on goes the melbourne cycle of weather.

I will post these in the order of play - from Wednesday's practise.

#1 (3 west).  the short 4 with the green feeding from front to back and from left to right.  You don't want to approach from short left, and any left-side pins are particularly challenging.  The fairway bunker on the next hole (#2 west 4 - bunker relocated from rhs to lhs recently) is a striking feature .  #15 (east 17 par 5 is adjacent to the east.











Adam Scott and KJ Choi driving from the second tee. The difference in size, style and age is apparent in these two swings.  "Bad boy' Stevie is quietly watching on, wearing his black hat.





Phil Mickelson practising from the back bunker on #4 (west 6).  He was able to stop the ball before the imaginary back-left pin.  Just an amazing shot, even in practice.



A few shots from the lhs of #5 (west 7) - the short uphill par 3.  Again, the tightness and firmness of the fescue surrounds and the greens can be seen, as well as some of the more obvious undulations on and around the greens.







Phil playing iron on #6 (short par 4 west 10) into the breeze.  Phil's caddy was telling Furyk's caddy that Phil wants to be close to this geen!  Furyk is playing the even holes tomorrow, Phil the odds.

The shots of the bunkers around the green show some of the sod work that maintains the lip in a couple of spots - the sod is in the shadow area, magnify the image if you are interested.









#7 (west 11).  a longer 4, stll pushing a little into the wind.  A little by-play between Freddy and Phil whilst Furyk is driving off the next hole (yes, they were playing one ball, in strict foursomes routine).







#8 (west 12) - longish hole but typicallly downwind.  3 wood gets up to the rhs bunkers!  The green is set into the back corner of this paddock.









#9 (west 17) back into a quartering breeze.  Regarded by many as one of the best holes on the course with a delightful green.  The first time I saw this hole, I didn't know the course, and could not work out whether the play was from the left (which was 18 west), the right (17 west) or as a short 4 from behind (11 west).  There is nothing there which dictates where the play is from.

The tight fescue hollows on the lhs of the green are a common feature at RM.  The bunkering behind has wonderful aesthetics.





#10 (west 18) is a wonderful hole for the club golfer - the carry over the hill will challenge us, but not the pro's who use a hybrid or similar (Bubba went for the green!).  The green site just sits so naturally in its surrounding area.









#16 (east 18), with #17 (west 1) to the right.



and now for the real golf....

James B

(ps great to see some responses regarding the weather)

[Rob Rigg]

Gents - Thanks for the updates on RM leading into the PC.

So the fairways are Legend couch, the green surrounds are fescue and the greens are fescue as well?

I don't think I have ever heard of this before - is it fairly standard in Aus?

When the fairways were native couch, were the green surrounds also native couch and the greens fescue? I think that is what Warwick said?

And the reason for these changes is because clubs want a more Green - aka - American PGA - look to their courses?

What a shame.

Fascinating thread - really appreciate it. Can't wait to start watching RM on the tube tomorrow.

[Matthew Sander]

Rob,

You can watch it right now! The first day's matches are live on The Golf Channel. Unlike the Ryder Cup, they only have one group of matches each of the first two days (today - foursomes, tomorrow - fourball). The event is over four days as opposed to three...

[jeffwarne]

What's up with the bunker raking pattern?

[Matthew Sander]

Jeff,

I watched a piece (I think yesterday) with the RM super. He was explaining the raking of the bunkers. Apparently, they are using timber boards (?) to smooth the sand on the faces to encourage balls to bounce down to the traditionally raked portion at the bottom. I don't really understand the impotus for this (admittedly I only caught the piece midstream) and it sounded odd to me as well. He was firing balls into the face and they wouldn't plug, but roll to the bottom.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

http://yfrog.com/ehl2fz

Jeff,

I got this from Geoff Shacklefords blog. Apparently they are using a board to keep the faces firm.

[jeffwarne]

http://yfrog.com/ehl2fz

Jeff,

I got this from Geoff Shacklefords blog. Apparently they are using a board to keep the faces firm.

I got it.
make the greens really difficult...
and the bunkers easier

Is the future of golf now to have a fairway grass(that slows the ball down), a greens grass(that speeds it up), an approach grass(that makes it bounce and allows you to putt), a primary rough grass, and native rough?

Didn't unirrigated bermuda accomplish the same thing there years ago?

I am enjoying how it all seems to play though

[Andrew Bertram]

Rob

hi again - the greens are suttons mix - a strain that was the original grass, it was changed in the late 80's and is now back to suttons
Very fine blade grass with little grain


Jeff

At Yarra we use scraping boards and then brooms to keep the faces firm so balls should not plug and then roll to the base of the bunkers, this is common practice at most of the sandbelt

I agree with Mikes comment that the greens are hard, not firm as suggested earlier
The greens were at 14+ on Tuesday, they are probably a little less than that today and no doubt slower tomorrow with 25 knot northerly's predicted

Since playing there first in 1984 and since played 250+ on each course it is the closest shape to what is was in the old days for greens

The legend has done 2 things, it is playing longer than ever and for club players it is far harder to spin the ball from the fairway meaning balls bouncing more on greens

[David_Elvins]

Gents - Thanks for the updates on RM leading into the PC.

So the fairways are Legend couch, the green surrounds are fescue and the greens are fescue as well?

I don't think I have ever heard of this before - is it fairly standard in Aus?

Rob,

Dont quote me on this but I think the main reason for the grass change was improved playability all year round.  The native couch was not as drought resistant in summer and there was more winter grasses in the fairway in winter.

I think that RM was the last major course in melbourne to go to couch grass.  The recent 10 year drought has seen almost all clubs go to grasses that survive well in hot summers.  There is a mix of santa anna, legend and wintergreen on the melbourne courses, I htink.  Santa Anna was the most popular grass for a while but I think the less run and better dormant conditions of the legend couch have seen it become more popular.  

I am sure as it gets wetter more clubs will experiment with oversowing fescue in the cooler months.  

The greens at RM are predomonantly bent grasses, I think.  

[William_G]

Gents - Thanks for the updates on RM leading into the PC.

And the reason for these changes is because clubs want a more Green - aka - American PGA - look to their courses?

What a shame.

I disagree...remodeling the course looks like a well nourished US PGA course is tragic at best. pretty good...I'll have to play it sometime, hopefully

[Tim Gavrich]

The golf course looks flat-out incredible.  The coolest visual feature, to me, is the way the bunkers seem to eat into the greens.  I love that there only appears to be a few inches of fringe between green and bunker edge and I wish more golf courses would practice that sort of policy.  Too often, green edges end up creeping farther and farther away from bunkers and the green complex it ends up looking sloppy and green space is lost.  RM is an exemplar in terms of definition on and around greens, it seems to me.

[Tim_Cronin]

Warwick, James,
   Many thanks for the commentary and the photographs. What a spectacular course, and, judging by the first 75 minutes of play, one that will reward excellent shots and penalize poor ones, which is what it's all about. Golf Channel reporting greens stimping at 14, about as fast as I've heard of in competition. Someone is going to putt into a bunker. This is great stuff!

[Adam Clayman]

Warwick, Thanks much for sharing your insights. What an awesome place to know every inch.

My one observation from the tellie is the grass color and apparent texture differences.

Does the increased distinction between fairway and green,make the course less deceptive?

[archie_struthers]

 

Amazing golf being played , as players are using the slopes to great advantage!  Tons of birdies in the alternate shot !!!!   Reminiscent of greens at Augusta visually with all the big breaks to putts.   Love the large internal contours versus the microbrews that are so often lauded on GCA.  

[Mark Saltzman]

The golf course looks flat-out incredible.  The coolest visual feature, to me, is the way the bunkers seem to eat into the greens.  I love that there only appears to be a few inches of fringe between green and bunker edge and I wish more golf courses would practice that sort of policy.  

+1.  My first thoughts as well.  I am really enjoying the look of the course / the way it is playing.  It seems the extremely fast greens are requiring some really creative shots and the shots that try to carry to the hole and spin are being penalized (see Phil's tee shot on 3).