Ballyneal in foreclosure

[Don_Mahaffey]

JC,
Its about loss.
For you no loss, so you mock.
Not all that funny to those feeling the pain.

Don,

Get a grip.  How many people on this thread "suffered a loss"?  Half dozen?  Forgive me for not making a financial hiccup for a bunch of rich people akin to a kid dying.

Death is loss.  $50k to rich people who can afford a $50k membership isn't on that level.

Save your advice.
I don't hear anyone complaining about money.
Shit happens that people care about, the fact you don't care is irrelevant.
I don't see anyone melting down.

[Mike Sweeney]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge,

If the man gave 10% of the equity to the Founding Members and 5% of the equity to the Regular Members, he would create an enormous amount of goodwill. 85% ownership with goodwill is much more valuable than 100% ownership.

It is simply good business and good karma for him to pull in the members into whatever is the next phase of Ballyneal. Please name the great club without a great membership?

There are many historic clubs that have been through financial hardships, but I have never heard of such a one sided deal at any of those clubs.

[JC Jones]

Don,

Where did I say I didn't care?

[Tom_Doak]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge,

If the man gave 10% of the equity to the Founding Members and 5% of the equity to the Regular Members, he would create an enormous amount of goodwill. 85% ownership with goodwill is much more valuable than 100% ownership.

It is simply good business and good karma for him to pull in the members into whatever is the next phase of Ballyneal. Please name the great club without a great membership?

There are many historic clubs that have been through financial hardships, but I have never heard of such a one sided deal at any of those clubs.

Mike:

Thank you for that last post.  I have been hoping that someone would see the light on that, to no avail.  He is acting like a too big to fail banker, but ironically, in reverse -- you made the loan, so it's all your fault!  Although, to be fair to Mr. Curlander, there are a lot of members who wouldn't be happy with the percentages you propose, either.

[Sean_A]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge

Exactly the point I made in my earlier post.  A hard look at reality has a way of making folks see sense.  If its no skin off the members' collective nose (and there well could be situation where many fear they will lose some skin) why not hang about and see what comes of it all?  In any case, I hope it all turns out well because I hate to see any American business fail. 

Ciao

[John_Cullum]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge,

If the man gave 10% of the equity to the Founding Members and 5% of the equity to the Regular Members, he would create an enormous amount of goodwill. 85% ownership with goodwill is much more valuable than 100% ownership.

Keep in mind they didn't have that deal before, why should they expect it now.

It wasn't Curlander who screwed the members

[Brad Isaacs]

What is the difference between then and now? The people running it are the same people.

[Jim Colton]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge

Exactly the point I made in my earlier post.  A hard look at reality has a way of making folks see sense.  If its no skin off the members' collective nose (and there well could be situation where many fear they will lose some skin) why not hang about and see what comes of it all?  In any case, I hope it all turns out well because I hate to see any American business fail. 

Ciao

Sean,

That's really the interesting thing, isn't it? What's another few thousand dollars when you've already sunk so much in? I think it boils down to this: is this really Ballyneal 2.0 (a new day, debt-free club, market-realistic pricing, benevolent dictator) or just Ballyneal 1.1? I think if it were Ballyneal 2.0,  many or most existing members would be on board and would champion the place to their friends and folks here.  Many question the business model but I absolutely believe a Ballyneal 2.0 would thrive. So one has to wonder why many are prepared to walk when sticking it out and at least kicking the tires seems like the logical next move. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. It's a complicated issue.

[JC Jones]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge,

If the man gave 10% of the equity to the Founding Members and 5% of the equity to the Regular Members, he would create an enormous amount of goodwill. 85% ownership with goodwill is much more valuable than 100% ownership.

It is simply good business and good karma for him to pull in the members into whatever is the next phase of Ballyneal. Please name the great club without a great membership?

There are many historic clubs that have been through financial hardships, but I have never heard of such a one sided deal at any of those clubs.

Mike,

This is just a perfect example of the free market at work.  Where is Lou Duran when you need him?

You're a Wall Street man, Mike, tell me if Goldman should write checks for $2k to all of their clients who lost money last year.  I bet that would create some good will.  Hell, I'm going call Fidelity because my 401K lost 5% last quarter.  

The secured lender exercised his rights in foreclosure.  What is there to be mad at?  Why would you expect him to function differently than any other secured lender?  Everybody goes apeshit over poor people who need foodstamps, but when it comes time to bailout someone who invested $250k in a walking only golf course in the middle of nowhere, all of a sudden everyone turns into Robert Owen.
 

[Craig Van Egmond]

JC,

    Do you regret that you started this mess?

[Jud_T]

 The secured lender exercised his rights in foreclosure.  What is there to be mad at?  Why would you expect him to function differently than any other secured lender?  Everybody goes apeshit over poor people who need foodstamps, but when it comes time to bailout someone who invested $250k in a walking only golf course in the middle of nowhere, all of a sudden everyone turns into Robert Owen.
 


Robert Owen?  That's PHD level stuff at State isn't it?  Let's not get overly intellectual here and keep things exactly where they belong, in the gutter and on TMZ....

[JC Jones]

 The secured lender exercised his rights in foreclosure.  What is there to be mad at?  Why would you expect him to function differently than any other secured lender?  Everybody goes apeshit over poor people who need foodstamps, but when it comes time to bailout someone who invested $250k in a walking only golf course in the middle of nowhere, all of a sudden everyone turns into Robert Owen.
 


Robert Owen?  That's PHD level stuff at State isn't it?  Let's not get overly intellectual here and keep things exactly where they belong, in the gutter and on TMZ....

 

[JC Jones]

JC,

    Do you regret that you started this mess?

It was on golf digest writers' twitters and the blogs of members of Ballyneal before it got posted to GCA.com.

[Mark Johnson]

The secured lender exercised his rights in foreclosure.  What is there to be mad at?  Why would you expect him to function differently than any other secured lender?  Everybody goes apeshit over poor people who need foodstamps, but when it comes time to bailout someone who invested $250k in a walking only golf course in the middle of nowhere, all of a sudden everyone turns into Robert Owen.
 

There is one big difference here..   Unlike any of the financial examples, the investors are now your members and a key revenue stream fora business that was foreclosed on because it didnt have enough revenue.

This isn't about a bailout, its about making a good business decision by creating goodwill about your key CUSTOMERS.   If the new owner wants to upset existing membership and let them walk, that's his prerogative to do so.   However, if he does, he better have a plan to replace their dues, guest fees and restaurant spending.

[John_Cullum]

So one has to wonder why many are prepared to walk when sticking it out and at least kicking the tires seems like the logical next move. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. It's a complicated issue.

I encourage you to be logical. You joined for the golf course. It's still there.

[Jim Colton]

So one has to wonder why many are prepared to walk when sticking it out and at least kicking the tires seems like the logical next move. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. It's a complicated issue.

I encourage you to be logical. You joined for the golf course. It's still there.

Thanks John Cullum

[Mike Sweeney]

Although, to be fair to Mr. Curlander, there are a lot of members who wouldn't be happy with the percentages you propose, either.

Tom,

That was based on my understanding that the membership put in $5.0 million, but I was corrected that it was closer to $7.0 million

Either way, it is pretty simple to solve that difference. The numbers are conceptual, but the solution is:

His best sales force is the old membership. Start them out as 15% ownership. He can put himself in as a preferred (stock or convertible debt, I don't know enough details) so that he is the first to get his money out, which I am told is his goal. As the new membership grows, the equity that the members own grows. New initiations pay him off. Give the old members the incentive to build equity in the club. He gets paid out over time, his equity is reduced as the preferred is reduced.

So one has to wonder why many are prepared to walk when sticking it out and at least kicking the tires seems like the logical next move. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. It's a complicated issue.

I encourage you to be logical. You joined for the golf course. It's still there.

Sarge,

Based on Jim's good deeds last summer, I think he can play just about anywhere. I think he joined Ballyneal for the golf club that had a great golf course. Jim can correct me.

[John_Cullum]

I think he joined Ballyneal for the golf club that had a great golf course. Jim can correct me.

A word of advice to those who want to join a great club- Don't put any serious money down unless its a member owned club

[Jim Colton]

Mike,

 The club and course were really one and the same for me. It's hard to imagine a 2012 without golf at Ballyneal for me. It's also hard to imagine golf at Ballyneal in 2012 without running into the friends I've made over the past 4+ years.

  Look, it's no secret that I really love Ballyneal. I really want to play golf there this summer. The fact that I'm still on the fence should be some indication how complicated the issues there are.

[George Pazin]

Nothing like the intersection of money and passion to reveal character. Even golf does not do it as well...

Best wishes for everyone involved, I hope it works out in some respect.

[Doug Sobieski]

...

[Jud_T]

Don't know the principals involved.  But based on prior experience...The good thing about a benevolent dictator running a club is that he makes all the decisions.  The bad thing about a benevolent dictator running a club is that he makes all the decisions.  For better or worse, a club is the membership and culture which starts at the top, not just a golf course.

[Brad Isaacs]

So one has to wonder why many are prepared to walk when sticking it out and at least kicking the tires seems like the logical next move. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. It's a complicated issue.

I encourage you to be logical. You joined for the golf course. It's still there.

There are a lot of wonderful golf courses out there that I really need to play. Ballyneal, been there done that, tired of the drama, and don't think they want me. A lot of members feel that way. A lot of members don't see the difference between 1.0 & 1.1(thanks Jim) A lot of people don't think this model will survive financially so maybe time to cut your losses and move on.  There is more golf to play . Maybe 2.0 when that occurs, if not involved elsewhere.

[Sean_A]

There seems to be an overwhelming presumption that John Curlander is going to ruin Ballyneal. Why do you people feel that way? Why is not possible  to accept that he is going to save the place from returning to cow pasture? The best days of Ballyneal may be just around the corner.

Sarge

Exactly the point I made in my earlier post.  A hard look at reality has a way of making folks see sense.  If its no skin off the members' collective nose (and there well could be situation where many fear they will lose some skin) why not hang about and see what comes of it all?  In any case, I hope it all turns out well because I hate to see any American business fail. 

Ciao

Sean,

That's really the interesting thing, isn't it? What's another few thousand dollars when you've already sunk so much in? I think it boils down to this: is this really Ballyneal 2.0 (a new day, debt-free club, market-realistic pricing, benevolent dictator) or just Ballyneal 1.1? I think if it were Ballyneal 2.0,  many or most existing members would be on board and would champion the place to their friends and folks here.  Many question the business model but I absolutely believe a Ballyneal 2.0 would thrive. So one has to wonder why many are prepared to walk when sticking it out and at least kicking the tires seems like the logical move. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. It's a complicated issue.

Jim

If its really about the folks and course, then I think many will hang on for a spell and see what gives.  That said, feeling betrayed (if that is the case here) is a tough thing to forgive of the people we love let alone the people we do business with.  I can see both sides.  I don't really know the business model or its chances of success, but I hope common sense prevails all round as the course does look something extra-special.   

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Looking at a previous post....

And please forgive me for my financial ignorance...

But why would the founding members put in that much money and not get any equity in return?  It looks like according to Mike, it was half of the money put in overall at 5 Mill, or perhaps even 7 mill as suggested in another post?  Meanwhile, this other guy puts up the other half and owns the entire thing?

I'm trying to think of any business model where I'm a founding investor in a company, put up a substantial amount of money to get it off the ground, and not get any shares/equity in return?  This sounds a bit like a hustle to me, unless I just don't understand the nature of what the original arrangement was.