[James Boon]

My club has recently announced a series of measures designed to take care of the course during the winter months. As its a heathland course on well draining sand, staying open all year round isn't usually a problem and play is to from grass tees and to normal greens unless there is a frost. This will continue to be the case, but firstly they have announced what is essentially a lengthened winter course and secondly the use of mats, both of which I'm not expecting to go down well with quite a lot of the members?

Firstly the winter course. The grass tees usually used in winter for everyday play are either the normal ones or some additional tees a little further forward to prevent to much damage. However, they have announced that on several holes we will be using the very back tees. This will make the course longer in the winter months, I believe the theory is to make the majority of players play from parts of the fairway they wouldnt usually, thus protecting the more normal areas, and spreading the wear and tear out a bit? Has anybody any experience of this? For those that know Notts, its the very back tees on the 2nd and 4th as well as not quite the very back tee on 12, all of which are already long par 4s so the Winter Foursomes are certainly going to be a challenge!

Secondly the mats. I know TOC uses them in the winter and I've heard of several other courses using them. Is this becoming more and more common now? New local rules are in place and we have been told we will need to use them from the fairway and the semi rough. Anybody with any real experience of the benefits of this?

Cheers,

James

[James Boon]

Its worth adding that I'm all for both these decisions as I expect they will certainly benefit the cvourse in the long run. However, I thought I'd try and see if anyone with positive experience can give me any extra ammunition to back up these issues as I can imagine the complaints and murmurings now... 

Regarding the matts, here are a few statistics that have been quoted:

"- The rationale of using the winter mats is that it will support the hollow coring, seeding, dressing and verti draining and will reduce unnecessary damage whilst allowing renovation work to yield the best results.

- Research has shown that during normal play over two months of winter, divots taken represent the equivilant area of an entire football pitch and these divots will not repair until the spring growth.

- Each divot will cost about 5pence to repair and an average golfer will play 46 damaging shots per round, though some will obviously take much fewer."

Apparently we will be using mats endorsed by the R&A as well as Royal Liverpool and Royal St Georges!

Cheers,

James

[Adrian_Stiff]

I HOPE that all UK course will use winter fairway mats eventually. In our climate from November 1st through to March 1st the grass is virtually dormant, its hard to prove the foot damage in the winter period versus the summer period ut an old wise head once tole me a pair of feet do 20 times the damage in December that the same feet do in June....Divot damage and infilling is a no no, so we are talking about a measure to help PROTECT THE GOLF COURSE. We talked today about introducing them at my club and we use them when conditions are really bad, its reasonably ok with 70% of the membership, 30% dont like it perhaps some might decide to join somewhere else, I think visitors would not like it though.
A lot of our members actually like playing off them, is not much fun hitting a 5 iron off wet turf afterall.
The real PLUS with the mats are superior spring conditions. Its probably of greater value the further north you go and on sandy turf where divots just shatter its well worth considering. When golfers get used to them the mats are not so bad, but there is a feeling with some golfers that they just dont want to use them.

[Sean_A]

Mats were trialled at Pennard for a few years.  Mind, Pennard may not be the best example for comparison because its difficult to retain enough water for growth anytime of year.  Anyway, the club found that 4-5 months of mats resulted in about 3 or 4 weeks of improved spring conditions and no improvement in the summer.  The mats weren't popular so the gain in spring was not deemed worth the 4-5 months (a huge part of the golf calender especially for a links) off mats - they were dropped.  I personally detest mats anytime, anywhere on a course - including tees.  That said, I am happy to roll the ball to the wings and often do if I am near the rough during winter months.  I think all golfers should if playing friendlies, but I would be very much against mat play.  The winter season is far too long to block out with fake golf.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

James,

I would have thought that your club would either use tees that left the player reaching a different part of the fairway or use mats. To use both measures seems a little overkill. Yes, you do get more wear and tear in winter but the effect on a course like Notts will be mainly cosmetic IMHO and with winter rules in use will not affect play.

Jon

[Niall C]

James

I note that Moray uses mats from certain parts of the fairway although I think you also have the option to play from the rough. I think they are also using the box system that Glasgow Gailes uses. The box comprises the fairway from about 100 yards from the tee upto an area just beyond the normal drive, usually signalled by small posts at the side of the firway. There is a line up the middle of the fairway, so if your ball lands in the fairway and in the box, then you just kick your ball into the rough on the same side as the position of your ball relative to the line up the middle of the fairway ie. right side of fairway, right side of rough. As someone who only tends to have a passing relationship with the fairway, its no great hardship. From what I saw at Gailes, it certainly works. The difference during the summer is there to see.

I've played both Dornoch and Nairn during the winter and they tend to push the tees way up such that some of the par 4's felt like they had been cut in half. I guess it works in spreading wear and tear but its not really great golf.

Silloth also had a good system where because of the rumpled nature of the fairways, the ball tended to gather in certain spots and therefore what they did was they put a white line round those areas and if your ball landed in there you simply moved it.

All of that works for links. However I think the biggest problem for inland course isn't divots but footfall. In my youth, courses were generally quieter, more so in winter. These days the membership is more active, helped by the availability of powercaddies and the like. Certain high traffic areas take a pounding and never ahieve decent growth during the summer season. Personally, if you could do it you should ban any type of trolly, and restrict movement round greens. Unfortunately disability laws being what they are I doubt tyou could do it.

Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

Niall a lot of what you say in reference to footfall is very true. WE SHOULD AIM to reduce traffic in the winter, golfers must accept conditions that are less than perfect; greens at 6mm, tees away from the main ones, playing from sides of fairways, perhaps mats. THE PROBLEM IS  most clubs discount their green fees in the winter, trying to fill every damm space against hardly any income (THNK CAVENDISH GROUPON OFFER) they dont understand the damage they do, they see it as ANOTHER TEN POUNDS.
Trolley problems are not the trolley themselves they are the fact they concentrate the foot traffic into singular areas, compaction and loss of turf are the ultimate results. There are no nice solutions since we are working against nature and you cant put leaves on the trees in the winter.

[Sean_A]

Adrian

Even though I take advantage of winter fees, it always confuses me why clubs would want to increase traffic in the winter.  Winter should naturally weed out the less hardy guys and mean far less play - which is what any course should want.  I was much in favour of my clubs not reducing the rate for the winter and it saddens me that Burham has done so for the first time this year.  I could perhaps accept it if was after 12 Sunday thru Friday, this would mean little extra play, but even then I am not sure the extra money is worth it.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Sean - Its just the "we need the money" situation v 'whats really best'. The real golf world is very tough and it has become very much a rat race as neighbouring clubs compete for the others clubs members...that did not happen just a few years back.

Yesterday I saw a winter membership (5 months) at a Harry Colt course for £100.

Winter golf needs to conserve as much as possible but the measures are designed to help the turf rather than enhance the golf..pins on the very edges of greens that sort of thing. Most people are very against those wee mats on their fist time but most do say actually they are not bad and some say they think its a better strike using them than a sloshy fairway, of course its not better than striking off dry linksy turf but thats the equation..best for golf or best for turf. Volume of play versus £$£$ is another equation. Its not easy.

[James Boon]

James,

I would have thought that your club would either use tees that left the player reaching a different part of the fairway or use mats. To use both measures seems a little overkill. Yes, you do get more wear and tear in winter but the effect on a course like Notts will be mainly cosmetic IMHO and with winter rules in use will not affect play.

Jon

Jon,

I see what you are saying regarding it possibly being overkill, BUT the condition of some parts of the course isn't great. Its certainly not bad, but probably not quite what would be expected, so I'm starting to feel like I welcome these measures, though as mentioned above, the lengthening option is certainly different!

Niall,

Interesting options regarding the box system, as I've not come across that before. I'm sure members would get used to it, but I can't imagine visitors being keen, though as Sean and Adrian discuss, visitors in winter is a whole other issue!

Speaking of which, I'd say the biggest point regarding winter visitors, is the type of course. Sean's Winter Tours are often to links or heathland courses, which will drain well and play better in the winter. I often take advantage of the cheaper winter rates at these type of courses also. If a parkland course that gets wet underfoot drops its fees in a desperate effort to get more money in the till, well its only ever going to work on the finer days of winter, so probably not be too much of a problem.

My experiences at Burnham though are that the place is always full at winter, at weekends anyway, as the course is very playable all year round, so disappointing to hear of the reduced rates!

Lastly, mats! My old course firstly had a rule that you had to tee any fairway shots up, which reduced the problem a little but they eventually went to mats. I always found the mats got wet and muddy and carry a heavy wet mat around a real pain. I'm therefore not really looking forward to it, however, I can certainly see how they will benefit the course so happy to do so.

Cheers,

James

[Jon Wiggett]

James,

maybe the club could go for just using the mats in the worst affected areas and leave the rest of the course playing a normal. Where I grew up we played a different routing in the winter. There were 4 greens that were only played in the winter and had minimal summer maintenance and many of the other greens were played to from different angles. Funny thing was that the low maintained greens were the better ones in the winter.

Jon

[Tim Nugent]

Tail wagging the Dog.

Clubs stay open in the winter not so much to provide golf for players but rather because they have staffand the staff needs to get paid.  The thinking is, "well, since we are paying these guys, we should have them work"  and hence the ycle is formed.  Perhaps it would be best to simply close the course from November to March, and only have the supt, mechanic and perhaps 1 or 2 workers stay on to repair the course.  Instead of raking bunkers and mowing (although the grass really isn't growning) they could be rebuilding bunkers, tees, fixing drainage low areas, fixing irrigation problems etc.  - all without those cumbersome golfers being in the way.

[Sean_A]

Tail wagging the Dog.

Clubs stay open in the winter not so much to provide golf for players but rather because they have staffand the staff needs to get paid.  The thinking is, "well, since we are paying these guys, we should have them work"  and hence the ycle is formed.  Perhaps it would be best to simply close the course from November to March, and only have the supt, mechanic and perhaps 1 or 2 workers stay on to repair the course.  Instead of raking bunkers and mowing (although the grass really isn't growning) they could be rebuilding bunkers, tees, fixing drainage low areas, fixing irrigation problems etc.  - all without those cumbersome golfers being in the way.

Tim

Try that crap in England and you will quickly see a bust club.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Tim,

heavy winter play is something that was not usual in the UK until the late 80's where a combination of increasingly active membership combined with increases in subs and a series of very mild winters made it the norm to play all year round. I think however the last two winters here have redressed the balance and hope the next few winters will be the same.

Jon

[Duncan Cheslett]

At our place the weekly comp yesterday was over 15 holes as major works are being undertaken to a couple of greens. Word is that in a couple of weeks time we'll be down to 13 holes.

This seems to me to be a sensible arrangement over the winter. The days get so short that playing 18 holes becomes a problem for any number of participants, and being able to 'rest' holes in rotation through the winter has got to be a good idea.

Anyway, 12 or 13 holes is more than enough for me in freezing temperatures and with the wind and rain in your face!

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