Re: Aggregate Course Competition WINNERS ON POST 137!!!

[Eric Smith]

You imply too much, but that's okay. Look, I was DQ'd early on, so what the hell am I doing here? Moving on.

Cheers

[Sven Nilsen]

What my intention in this project was, was to test all of our ability to create a testing and fun course, through aggregate means, that did have similarities and distinctions.  My goal was not to create a list of "GCA's best short course".

Does any of that make sense.  And yes, I just don't buy ANGC as "linksy"   

Ben:

I don't think anyone was claiming ANGC is "linksy."  I believe the assertion was that Jones and MacKenzie looked to the Old Course as inspiration when they designed ANGC.  Although a lot of the ground game options have been lost over time (as have almost all of MacKenzie's naturalistic bunkering), there are still shots on the course where judging bounces and roll are an important aspect.  For example, think back to Tigers ridiculous slinging 3 wood a couple of years ago, as well as any drive on 10 and 13.

With respect to this contest, I trust you're smart enough to disregard the "coffee table" nature of many of the holes listed.  I'd venture that most of us that have included Top 25 course holes in our lists put a little more effort into putting our entries together than just looking for the best hole in the world at every number.  If you'd like me to walk through the exercise I went through to come up with the holes I did, I'd be happy to expound.

Sven

   

[Tim Bert]

I'm creating my course using my favorite firm and fast modern courses because 1) The really good classic courses are already pretty short, 2)I'm too lazy to research the distances at courses I haven't played, 3)They fit well together in my mind, 4)It is better daydreaming about real things that happened in the past than things that will never happen in the future, and 5)I'd be satisfied playing this course forever!!

I'm using the distance identified as the tips on the versions of the scorecards that I have in my possession.

1. Old Macdonald 341 par 4
2. French Creek 475 par 4
3. Rustic Canyon 315 par 4
4. Bandon Trails 408 par 4
5. Bandon Dunes 428 par 4
6. Pacific Dunes 316 par 4
7. Ballyneal 352 par 4
8. Sand Hills 367 par 4
9. Wild Horse 185 par 3

3187 par 35

10. Longshadow 439 par 4
11. Pacific Dunes 148 par 3
12. Ballyneal 375 par 4
13. Kingsley Club 292 par 4
14. Sand Hills 508 par 5
15. Kingsley Club 465 par 4
16. Old Macdonald 455 par 4
17. Sand Hills 150 par 3
18. Wild Horse 418 par 4

3250 par 35

6437 par 70 total

I've listed the tips per the assignment, but I'll be playing this course from about 6100 to 6200.


  

[Sean_A]

Some calls I really like and some I scratch me head over:

Eric: #14 Merion??   Good call #4 Porthcawl

Jud: Lots of odd ones here - 2 Prestick, 16 Carnousite & 18 Portnarnock

Jason: 2 North Berwick is a good call

Bill M: 11 at Muirfield?

Jeff W: #1 Aberdeen??

Garland: #1 RCD?

Simon: 2 Aberdeen???  Very good call 6 Dornoch

Ed B: #5 Merion is a great call

Joe W & Sven: 1 Merion???

D Hodgson: Like 9 RCD

G Nichols: wonderful calls on 6 St Enodoc and 14 Portrush

T O Rourke: 17 Kiawah??

Mark R: I like 1 Liverpool, 7 Formby & 11 West Cornwall  Not convinced by 15 St Enodoc

Boony: 8 Dornoch??, 16 Brancaster??  4 Swinley is a great call

Pietro: 18 Pinehurst??

So many people have picked 12 TOC and 15 NB that I am actively seeking replacements.

Ciao

[Sven Nilsen]

Some calls I really like and some I scratch me head over:


Joe W & Sven: 1 Merion???

"Well hello there Mrs. Wanamaker, my you're looking fine today.  Pardon me a moment and mind your scone, I believe its my tee."

From what I can tell so far, there are some heavy favorites amongst the GCA crowd:

1. Macrihanish (GC, Sand Hills and Merion not far behind)
2. Pine Valley (NGLA, Oakmont)
3.  NGLA (Pasa, Wannmoisett)
4.  Lahinch (Bethpage is the only other course on at least two routings)
5.  Merion (Pinehurst, Crystal Downs)
6.  RMW (Seminole, Pine Valley, NGLA)
7.  Sand Hills ( Ballyneal, Pebble, Shinnie)
8.  Pebble (Troon)
9.  RCD, Yale, Cypress (tied)
10.  Riviera (in a landslide)
11.  Shinnie and PacDunes (TOC was picked twice)
12.  TOC (ANGC and Pine Valley in a distant 2nd and 3rd)
13.  ANGC (Berwick, Pine Valley)
14.  Dornoch (Friar's Head the only other multiple selection)
15.  North Berwick (Cypress)
16.  Cypress (Merion and Bandon Dunes a lap behind)
17.  TOC (Oakmont)
18.  Pebble (TOC)

If someone wants to compile the par and yardage for the competition composite, please feel free.

[Eric Smith]

Arbs,

I played that beast (all 408 of her) straight into a hurricane like 40 mph wind! A great drive left me with 3 iron hard into it and it just carried onto the green. 2 putts later I had just made one of the toughest pars of my life! I fancy the hole and like its setting. It looks as though it could be the starter when on the practice green.

[Michael Dugger]

1.  Kingsley Club                   Par 5      610 yds
2.  Sebonack GC              Par 4      474 yds
3.  Spyglass               Par 3      172 yds    
4.  Barnbougle Dunes           Par 4      271 yds            
5.  Lahinch                      Par 3      154 yds                  
6.  St. Enodoc              Par 4      378 yds      
7.  Ballyneal              Par 4      335 yds      
8.  Oakmont               Par 3      288 yds      
9.  Royal County Down     Par 4      485 yds

Out         Par 34    3167 yds

10. Royal Melbourne           Par 4      279 yds
11. LACC                      Par 3      244 yds
12. Sand Hills              Par 4      415 yds
13. North Berwick           Par 4      365 yds
14. Cruden Bay              Par 4      389 yds
15. Kingston Heath           Par 3      142 yds
16. Friars Head              Par 4      385 yds
17. Crystal Downs           Par 4    311 yds                                      
18. Pebble Beach           Par 5      543 yds                          

                         Par 35   3073 yds
      
                         Par 69   6240 yds


My course takes holes from across the world.  
It uses golf holes both ancient, golden and modern.  
It does not use the same course more than once.
I tried to use holes that everyone else did not select.  There are a few exceptions.
My course starts long and hard, giving the early impression it is not short and easy.
My par 5s are bookends, holes #1 and #18
My course possesses a par 3 longer than two of the par 4s.
It has holes going up, down and both up and over.

Par 3 yardage 142,154,172,244,288

Par 4 yardage 271,279,311,335,365,378,385,389,415,474,485

Par 5 yardage 543,610

[Bill McKinley]

Sean,

Double frown face on #11 at Muirfield??  I'm not saying it's best hole there by any stretch, but it is a very good hole on a great golf course.  I was searching for a way to "fit" Muirfield into my layout and if you notice, I took it out in my 2nd list.

But it is a very good hole IMO.  Great blind tee shot and once you walk up on top of the hill you get a wonderful view of the links layout.  It's also a challenging shot to a small green with nothing behind it except the view of the sea in the distance.  Also, the 2nd shot is very exposed to the elements and the open front gives you options to bring it in low.

Also I birdied it the first time I played it into a nice 25 mph wind.  Good drive down the right center, Little controlled knock down 5 iron to 12 feet and buried it.  So forgive me for having a soft spot for it.  

[Garland Bayley]

DISCLAIMER: This is not my entry! This is the BUNKERLESS entry by the DISCUSSION GROUP.
On the Foxy Siblings thread, I collected peoples submissions of good bunkerless holes, i.e., the Foxy Royal Dornoch criteria.

Perhaps I should have named the thread Foxy Siblings, Parents, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts, Nephews, Nieces, Children, and shoe string relatives, as I got a lot of long par 4 submissions, thereby making the 6500 yard limit hard to meet with variety.

387   4   1   Deal
160   3   2   Kennember
436   4   3   St. Enodoc
152   3   4   Deal
385   4   5   Royal Portrush
548   5   6   Wild Horse
434   4   7   Ballybunion
474   4   8   Sagebrush
470   4   9   Woking
3446   35      
205   3   10   Pacific Dunes
473   4   11   Ballybunion
455   4   12   Kingsley
382   4   13   Kington
365   4   14   Yale
377   4   15   Haagsche
428   4   16   Yelverton
191   3   17   Rock Creek Cattle Company
350   4   18   The Old Course
3010   33      
6456   68      

[Mark Saltzman]

1.  Kingsley Club                   Par 5      610 yds
2.  Sebonack GC              Par 4      474 yds
3.  Spyglass               Par 3      172 yds    
4.  Barnbougle Dunes           Par 4      271 yds            
5.  Lahinch                      Par 3      154 yds                  
6.  St. Enodoc              Par 4      378 yds      
7.  Ballyneal              Par 4      335 yds      
8.  Oakmont               Par 3      288 yds      
9.  Royal County Down     Par 4      485 yds

Out         Par 34    3167 yds

10. Royal Melbourne           Par 4      279 yds
11. LACC                      Par 3      244 yds
12. Sand Hills              Par 4      415 yds
13. North Berwick           Par 4      365 yds
14. Cruden Bay              Par 4      389 yds
15. Kingston Heath           Par 3      142 yds
16. Friars Head              Par 4      385 yds
17. Crystal Downs           Par 4    311 yds
18. Pebble Beach           Par 5      543 yds

                         Par 35   3073 yds
      
                         Par 69   6240 yds


My course takes holes from across the world.  
It uses golf holes both ancient, golden and modern.  
It does not use the same course more than once.
I tried to use holes that everyone else did not select.  There are a few exceptions.
My course starts long and hard, giving the early impression it is not short and easy.
My par 5s are bookends, holes #1 and #18
My course possesses a par 3 longer than two of the par 4s.
It has holes going up, down and both up and over.

Par 3 yardage 142,154,172,244,288

Par 4 yardage 271,279,311,335,365,378,385,389,415,474,485

Par 5 yardage 543,610

Michael,

Based on the holes I have seen from your course, I love what you picked.

But to nitpick -- 12 at Sand Hills? Just trying to stand out from  the pack?

[Jud_T]

 

[Tim Martin]

1. Eastward Ho Par 4 380 Yds
2. Newport CC Par 4 366 Yds
3. Piping Rock Par 3 185 Yds
4. Fishers Island Par 4 412 Yds
5. Kiawah Ocean Par 3 207 Yds
6. Winged Foot West Par 4 321 Yds
7. Taconic Par 4 402 Yds
8. Yale Par 4  406 Yds
9. Philly Cricket Par 4 462 yds

10. Yale Par 4 396 Yds
11. Bethpage Black Par 4 430 Yds
12. Atlantic City CC Par 3 134 Yds
13. Merion West Par 4 350 Yds
14. The Orchards Par 4 405 Yds
15. Augusta National Golf Club Par 5 530 Yds
16. Westchester CC South par 3 229 yds
17. Kittansett Club Par 4 392 Yds
18. Merion East Par 4 463 Yds

Out - Par 34  3141 Yards
In -   Par 35  3329 Yards
Par   69  6470 Yds

I used holes which I have played with the exception of ANGC which I have walked only.

[Wade Schueneman]

I have avoided reading the prior submissions in an effort to be fair, so I am not sure how original this list will be.

1) National (327)
2) Pine Valley (368)
3) Deal (509)(5)
4) National (195)(3)
5) Dunluce (384)
6) Lahinch (424)
7) Ballyneal (352)
Pebble Beach (427)
9) Cypress Point (292)
10) Riviera (315)
11) Ballybunion (473)
12) Old Course (348)
13) Barnbougle (188)(3) - 2153 (6399)
14) Royal Dornoch (445)
15) Cypress Point (143)(3)
16) Cypress Point (231)(3)
17) Old Course (455)
18) Pebble Beach (543)(5)
Yardage - 6399

This course is under 6400 and as underlined above includes 5 very strong par 4s and would play to a par of 70.
The toughest decisions for me were at #7 and #13
7 - Crystal Downs, Pebble, Barnbougle, Machrie, Pennard, Rye etc.
13 - North Berwick, Lahinch, Augusta National, Pine Valley, Muirfield etc.

[Wade Schueneman]

Garland,

The Dell is now #5 (after the "restoration").

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

The Dell is now #5 (after the "restoration").

OOPS!

[Wade Schueneman]

1.  Kingsley Club                   Par 5      610 yds
2.  Sebonack GC              Par 4      474 yds
3.  Spyglass               Par 3      172 yds    
4.  Barnbougle Dunes           Par 4      271 yds            
5.  Lahinch                      Par 3      154 yds                  
6.  St. Enodoc              Par 4      378 yds      
7.  Ballyneal              Par 4      335 yds      
8.  Oakmont               Par 3      288 yds      
9.  Royal County Down     Par 4      485 yds

Out         Par 34    3167 yds

10. Royal Melbourne           Par 4      279 yds
11. LACC                      Par 3      244 yds
12. Sand Hills              Par 4      415 yds
13. North Berwick           Par 4      365 yds
14. Cruden Bay              Par 4      389 yds
15. Kingston Heath           Par 3      142 yds
16. Friars Head              Par 4      385 yds
17. Crystal Downs           Par 4    311 yds
18. Pebble Beach           Par 5      543 yds

                         Par 35   3073 yds
      
                         Par 69   6240 yds


My course takes holes from across the world.  
It uses golf holes both ancient, golden and modern.  
It does not use the same course more than once.
I tried to use holes that everyone else did not select.  There are a few exceptions.
My course starts long and hard, giving the early impression it is not short and easy.
My par 5s are bookends, holes #1 and #18
My course possesses a par 3 longer than two of the par 4s.
It has holes going up, down and both up and over.

Par 3 yardage 142,154,172,244,288

Par 4 yardage 271,279,311,335,365,378,385,389,415,474,485

Par 5 yardage 543,610

FOr what it is worth, I think that is a GREAT course you put together.

[Carl Rogers]

What is not present in these composite courses says a lot .... I have seen only 2 Ross holes and 2 Strantz holes, which were soundly critisized.

No Dye holes? 17th at Sawgrass?

[jeffwarne]

Some calls I really like and some I scratch me head over:

Eric: #14 Merion??   Good call #4 Porthcawl

Jud: Lots of odd ones here - 2 Prestick, 16 Carnousite & 18 Portnarnock

Jason: 2 North Berwick is a good call

Bill M: 11 at Muirfield?

Jeff W: #1 Aberdeen??

Garland: #1 RCD?

Simon: 2 Aberdeen???  Very good call 6 Dornoch

Ed B: #5 Merion is a great call

Joe W & Sven: 1 Merion???

D Hodgson: Like 9 RCD

G Nichols: wonderful calls on 6 St Enodoc and 14 Portrush

T O Rourke: 17 Kiawah??

Mark R: I like 1 Liverpool, 7 Formby & 11 West Cornwall  Not convinced by 15 St Enodoc

Boony: 8 Dornoch??, 16 Brancaster??  4 Swinley is a great call

Pietro: 18 Pinehurst??

So many people have picked 12 TOC and 15 NB that I am actively seeking replacements.

Ciao

Sean,
The start at Aberdeen is played virtually out of the bar inches from the window-which saves one from walking far from the "indoor" range .
Coupled with the view downhill to the water and links ahead,(and everyone watching) it's one hell of a way to start a memorable round.
It's not always about the architecture, despite our often  common view of courses we like.

[mark chalfant]

1   346 yds         Prestwick              
2   137 yds         Garden City          
3   592 yds         Oak Tree              
4   221 yds         Hague                  
5   514 yds         New South Wales  
6   420 yds         Eastward Ho                          
7   160 yds         Lawsonia                              
8   320 yds         Pine Valley                
9   163 yds         Franklin Hills            


10  412 yds           San Francisco        
11  165 yds           Fishers Island          
12  378 yds           White Bear Yacht              
13  236 yds           Addington              
14  374 yds           North Berwick        
15  557 yds           Boston GC              
16  125 yds           California Club                
17  405 yds           Royal Dornoch        
18  389 yds           Prairie Dunes            


3,076  /  3,043  par 68   6,149  yards
 
    

[Ben Sims]

Five more days of competition!  We've got some really good entries thus far.  The judge and I will look at the entries this weekend over some drinks in The Alley.

Remember that if you'd like to revise your entry, please EDIT your original post and do not create another post.  This will make it easier on our technically averse judge.  I mean, he does fly a Bonanza, hardly a technologically advanced craft.

 

[jeffwarne]

Five more days of competition!  We've got some really good entries thus far.  The judge and I will look at the entries this weekend over some drinks in The Alley.

Remember that if you'd like to revise your entry, please EDIT your original post and do not create another post.  This will make it easier on our technically averse judge.  I mean, he does fly a Bonanza, hardly a technologically advanced craft.

 

Ben,
Does this mean I have a shot at influencing the judge?

[Ben Sims]

Jeff,

Hoping so.  We're going to have fun this weekend. 

[Lou Cutolo]

Only used courses I have played in the Met Area.

1.   Winged Foot West - par4 450
2.   NGLA - par4 330
3.   Fenway - par5 523
4.   Apawamis - par4 324
5.   Maidstone - par4 323
6.   Metropolis - par4 421
7.   CC of Fairfield - par4 310
8.   Baltusrol Lower - par4 374
9.   Quaker Ridge - par3 167

                  Par 36   Yards 3222

10.   Creek - par4 308
11.   Atlantic - par3 128
12.   Tall Grass - par4 323
13.   Essex County CC - par5 585
14.   Southward Ho - par3 217
15.   Bayonne - par4 316
16.   Huntington - par4 406
17.   Bethpage Black - par3 213      
18.   Shinnecock Hills - par4 457

                  Par 34    Yards 2,953

                                                                                                                                                                              
                   Par 70      Yards 6175

Lou

[Cristian]

1   Royal Aberdeen   410      4   
2   Eindhoven      310      4   
3   Cruden Bay      320      4   
4   Banff      165      3   
5   Royal St Georges   435      4   
6   Bandon Dunes   160      3   
7   Morfontaine   427      4   
8   St Georges Hill   180      3   
9   Royal County Down   486   2898   4   33
10   De Pan      345      4   
11   Ballybunion      446      4   
12   Royal Ashdown   511      5   
13   Pac Dunes      444      4   
14   Portrush      211      3   
15   Haagsche      412      4   
16   Old Mac      455      4   
17   Swinley      160      3   
18   Ravenstein      300   3284   4   35
                  
         6182      68   

[Jim Colton]

1 - Old Macdonald, Par 4 - 341 Yds
2 - National Golf Links of America, Par 4 - 330 Yds
3 - Ballyneal, Par 3 - 145 Yds
4 - Bethpage Black, Par 5 - 517 Yds
5 - Pacific Dunes, Par 3 - 199 Yds
6 - Kingsley Club, Par 4 - 395 Yds
7 - Ballyneal, Par 4 - 352 Yds
8 - Crystal Downs, Par 5 - 550 Yds
9 - Yale, Par 3 - 213 Yds
10 - Riviera, Par 4 - 315 Yds
11 - Shinnecock Hills, Par 3 - 158 Yds
12 - Cypress Point, Par 4 - 400 Yds
13 - Pacific Dunes, Par 4 - 444 Yds
14 - Friar's Head, Par 5 - 535 Yds
15 - Sand Hills, Par 4 - 469 Yds
16 - Bandon Dunes, Par 4 - 363 Yds
17 - Bandon Trails, Par 3 - 180 Yds
18 - The Old Course, Par 4 - 350 Yds
 - Total, Par 70 - 6256 Yds